Interface Design

[Kevin McAllister]

Following on with this thread -

http://techboard.vectorworks.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=186626#Post186626

and out of curiosity I've been working my way through some training videos for Solidworks. I've yet to see a function I can't emulate in VW in some way but the Solidworks approach is so much simpler and focussed on efficiency.

Its become very clear that what VW is missing is a skilled user interface designer to come in, take control of development and go through every tool and command with the goal of simplifying, combining, clarifying, defragmenting and finishing unfinished ideas. All the tools and commands are there but unfortunately much of it is half implemented, inconsistent, miss-named and fragmented across arbitrary product lines.

Combine this with a 64bit multi core and processor aware engine and VW could truly call itself "best in class".

Kevin

[AndiACD]

i don't think anyone would complain if the capabilities improved at the cost of a small price increase.

What is it? Five years they've had to give VW 64bit multi core and processor aware engine.

This and 3D Modelling Tools failings, it really is time to prioritise aspects VW still hasn't addressed.

[grant_PD]

And while Parasolid may be a great modelling kernel, that doesn't mean that VW is a great modelling program. C4D is a great modelling program. VW is primitive by comparison.

[AndiACD]

Quite!

[digitalcarbon]

i though solid edge with Synchronous technology was the way to go?

http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/plm/synchronous-technology.shtml

i called a rep and asked if any were using for architecture and they said they did not recommend

[Kevin McAllister]

i don't think anyone would complain if the capabilities improved at the cost of a small price increase.

What is it? Five years they've had to give VW 64bit multi core and processor aware engine.

This and 3D Modelling Tools failings, it really is time to prioritise aspects VW still hasn't addressed.

It's not really about cost anymore. I've invested in C4D already, money that could have gone into NV's pockets had they not dropped the ball. Efficient workflow will pay for itself in the long term.

There are so many 3d programs now that have a better user interface, VW sticks out like a sore thumb....

Kevin

[grant_PD]

Best practice at this point for me:

-Rough plans in VW, rough shapes

-Hop over to C4d for real rendering, lighting, texturing, modelling

-When new pcs are needed "send to c4d" so that there is congruity between files.

After design is finalized and signed off on head back to Vw for scenic breakdown and laying out of elevations, worksheets, etc.

So at this point I want VW to be really really good and intuitive with:

laying out sheet layers and coordination

Doing fast, high quality, controllable hidden line renders with some semblance of graphic shading

having better, easier, controllable worksheets and databasing.

Worksheets right now feel almost like programming in DOS.

Hidden line renders and shading are hard to control, and take too long to render, even with fast machines.

I want more control over my revisions and drawing coordination.

[Kevin McAllister]

Best practice at this point for me:

-Rough plans in VW, rough shapes

-Hop over to C4d for real rendering, lighting, texturing, modelling

-When new pcs are needed "send to c4d" so that there is congruity between files.

After design is finalized and signed off on head back to Vw for scenic breakdown and laying out of elevations, worksheets, etc.

So at this point I want VW to be really really good and intuitive with:

laying out sheet layers and coordination

Doing fast, high quality, controllable hidden line renders with some semblance of graphic shading

having better, easier, controllable worksheets and databasing.

My own workflow is very much like you describe. The biggest priorities for me are fast, efficient and good looking design drawings from the 3D model (hence my other thread on sheet layers, annotations and drawing co-ordination) and 3d modelling improvements (interface design, the tools already exist, they are just poorly implemented). There should be a round trip interface with C4D so any modelling work I do there can easily be brought back into VW. I don't use worksheets much but that's probably again because of the poor interface.

Kevin

Edited June 25, 2013 by Kevin McAllister

[grant_PD]

What would be of great help too is if VW didn't render 3d models from every other program showing every single polygon. I assume it's the phong shading. But if I could just model in c4d and then use VW for layout and elevations, that would be great.

[Monadnoc]

Yes, the lack of phong shading in VW often results in very bad looking renders. I import models I made in C4D into other programs and they render smooth (they import the phong shading tag), but the same model imported into VW is very obviously faceted. VW apparently ignores the phong tag, whereas the other programs do import it. This is using 3ds (my fourth choice for import/export, due to triangulation). Due to the lack of phong shading, you have to up the polygon count almost triple to get them to render smooth in VW. Considering how poorly VW handles high polygon models, this is far from ideal.

Wish for VW 2014: Utilize phong shading AND be able to import dae and fbx (or even obj) so we can maintain quads. Both these things would eliminate the faceted look of imported models (while we're at it, how about making UVW coordinates stick, so we can rescale imported models and have the textures scale with them).

Edited June 25, 2013 by Monadnoc

[Kevin McAllister]

I always assumed that's what Mesh Smoothing under Document Preferences was for. VW is not very good at bringing in polygon object as objects (meshes). It often sees them as thousands of individual polygons. If you convert a collection of polygons to a mesh, the smoothing angle has some effect.

But I agree that VW should recognize the phong tag and UVW co-ordinates for textures. But then I really want bidirectional exchange between C4D and VW without a bunch of intermediate file formats as mentioned above.

Kevin

[grant_PD]

owned by the same company....

[AndiACD]

You'd think that by now, working under the same roof metaphorically, if not physically, they would be able use a language that both VW & C4D understand and use efficiently.

Or at least be able to translate efficiently.

[Monadnoc]

I have wished for two way compatibility between VW and C4d since they switched over. I'd rather they invested their time in that file format then either fbx or dae import. Hopefully some day that will happen. I'm not sure why it hasn't already been implemented. But until that day we're stuck with 3ds as the only route.

I've tried importing a 3ds as a mesh but it loses the textures. If I Import as Groups of 3d Polygons, it applies the textures correctly, but if I then try to convert that model to a Mesh it destroys the texture mapping. Probably the UVW mapping not "sticking" issue again. Unless I'm doing something wrong.

Although the Mesh Smoothing setting does smooth it out. Maybe if VW can figure out how to bring in the textures and apply them when importing as meshes the problem would be solved.