Group to Class 'None' Preference

[Chris D]

It's easy enough to force symbols to reside in a certain Class, using the insertion preferences for each symbol.

I'd like something similar for groups.

I'd like a global preference, to always move a group to the None class, whenever the group is created. The objects inside the group have their own class, and therefore for the most part, there is no added value in classing the group itself. The downside of the current arrangement is that groups jump to the active class, regardless of the class of the objects which are being grouped - often very inappropriate.

I'd like this added to my wishlist for Robust Foolproofing as it's one of Vectorworks' weaknesses in a large drawing office environment.

Countless hours are wasted tracking down missing groups which are on the wrong class. Three of mine, just today.

[Matt Panzer]

Hi Chris,

Download Katerina Panagiotakis' "Group to None Class" plug-in command from:

VectorDepot Plug-ins

Put this in your workspace and assign it your key command for "Group".

I too, would like to have a preference, but this does the trick.

[Chris D]

Hi Chris,

Download Katerina Panagiotakis' "Group to None Class" plug-in command from:

VectorDepot Plug-ins

Put this in your workspace and assign it your key command for "Group".

I too, would like to have a preference, but this does the trick.

Thanks Matt,

Looks like this is so necessary somebody actually wrote a plug-in!

....but I hate managing plug-ins. This one was written in 2006...does it work with 2008...who knows? My experience with old plug-ins is that they have unexpected results. I recently used an old one (scale by object centres) which put me in an eternal dialog loop and I had to force-quit. Worse still...managing plug-ins AND workspaces...for 35 users...when we don't enforce a standard workspace...

Nope, thanks for the offer and you've proved my point that this feature is necessary in offices which use classes...but I'm not gonna use the workaround and this wish should stay on the wishlist.

[Pat Stanford]

I think I may have written the Scale by Object Center script. Let me know which one and where you got it from and what version you need to have it work on and I will fix it up.

[Miguel Barrera]

Back to the subject of the "None" class. I learned early in my workflow to leave always the "None" class as the default for new objects and then if needed, assign to specific classes after creation through the OIP. I have never had a problem since by following this procedure.

I do not understand why users need to change the "None" class as the default.

[Chris D]

I think I may have written the Scale by Object Center script. Let me know which one and where you got it from and what version you need to have it work on and I will fix it up.

er...not sure where it came from Pat....probably vectordepot. I tried to use it on VW2008 and it has a particular peculiarity....if the objects you pre-select are groups, it throws up the dialog about nothing being selected, but canceling just loops you back. Shame, because this and the rotate equivalent are handy time savers.

[Chris D]

I do not understand why users need to change the "None" class as the default.

Me neither, but oh for the luxury of never having to work on somebody else's drawings...

I don't wish to belittle my colleagues' skills, but VW needs to be more fool proof. A simple setting which would allow us to enforce group-to-none-class would remove a big headache - without the overhead of managing plug-ins or workspaces. This is one of those CAD Management tools that VW just lacks.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Chris D

[Pat Stanford]

Chris, It looks like you and I created the script in this thread.

http://techboard.vectorworks.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=94550&Searchpage=6&Main=20191&Words=scale&Search=true#Post94550

I didn't make it into a PIO, but it would be easy to do.

I have updated both scripts and reposted them to the thread above.

[Matt Panzer]

Chris,

While you're right to be concerned with the behavior of plug-ins written in older versions of VW, this script is SO incredibly simple that you shouldn't need to worry about problems. I've used it through many versions and couldn't do without it. Trust me (famous last words), it's well worth it and a seamless change to your workflow when using the Group key command. Purely a "set it and forget it" kind of plug-in.

[Chris D]

I have updated both scripts and reposted them to the thread above.

Cheers Pat - many thanks.

[Assembly]

....but I hate managing plug-ins. This one was written in 2006...does it work with 2008...who knows? My experience with old plug-ins is that they have unexpected results. I recently used an old one (scale by object centres) which put me in an eternal dialog loop and I had to force-quit. Worse still...managing plug-ins AND workspaces...for 35 users...when we don't enforce a standard workspace...

We have a bit of a hack on this in our small office.

We use dropbox. www.dropbox.com

Change the Vecotroworks user folder preferences on all computers to point to the same dropbox folder.

If you make a change on one computer then dropbox redistributes the file to all folder.

Warning: If one file gets corrupted (say an the workspace preference .xml file) it will propagate all VW installs!. Luckily dropbox is a time machine, you can restore any file through the web interface. Better still is if you use a time machine you can restore the entire settings folder.

This has saved me many hours in installing, setting up workstations and managing plugins.

(and cost the entire office a couple when the Windor14 preference file corrupted!).

Edited November 18, 2010 by Assembly

[Matt Panzer]

I have to say that even the simplest of plug-ins (like the "Group to None Class) can increase productivity significantly. While managing plug-ins is something to consider, the increased productivity will FAR outweigh it.

[Assembly]

agree 100% matt

[Chris D]

I have to say that even the simplest of plug-ins (like the "Group to None Class) can increase productivity significantly. While managing plug-ins is something to consider, the increased productivity will FAR outweigh it.

I agree that scripts and plug-ins are indispensable. The one I use all day long, particularly when working on someone else's drawing, is one called "Set to Class Defaults" - this puts the attributes palette back to "by class", along with any object you have selected - brilliant time saver.

[Christiaan]

Chris, where can I find that script? Sounds great.

[Christiaan]

It's cost/benefit equation and often these things end up being a pain the in ass right in the middle of a deadline. Very simple scripts, however, I've found to be reasonably robust.

[Chris D]

It'd be a 3rd party solution, requiring PIO management, so you guys would hate it.

aha, there's a difference between scripts that I use personally...and those that I want to try and impose on the unwashed masses (oops, there I go again....)

[Chris D]

Chris, where can I find that script? Sounds great.

It's one from Katerina Panagiotakis

Set Object to Class Defaults from Vector Depot

http://www.vectordepot.com/older_plug-ins.html

The name is a bit misleading as it does more than change the object - it sets all the fiddly little attributes on the fiddly little Attributes Palette back to where they should be if Nemetschek had got their defaults right.

[Christiaan]

Pray tell, Christiaan, what commercial/professional PIOs your firm has bought and deployed. Anything above a pound (of flesh.)

WinDoor.

(Thanks Chris.)

[heavy manners]

On 11/17/2010 at 4:02 PM, Matt Panzer said:

Hi Chris,

Download Katerina Panagiotakis' "Group to None Class" plug-in command from:

VectorDepot Plug-ins

Put this in your workspace and assign it your key command for "Group".

I too, would like to have a preference, but this does the trick.

 

This sounds brilliant! However I'm unable to locate it either via this link or via Google. Any idea of where I can get it? Thanks!

[grant_PD]

@Pat Stanford are you able to repost the "group to none class" plugin again? 

thanks!

[shorter]

Procedure GroupToNoneClass;

    var
        h,hg:handle;
        CurrentCl:string;
        

    begin
        
        CurrentCl:=ActiveClass;
        NameClass('None');
        Group;
        NameClass(CurrentCl);

    end;

run (GroupToNoneClass);

[grant_PD]

This is a really great script!  Can anyone tell me how to bind this script to the hotkey command for grouping? I've never assigned a vectorscript to a hotkey before....

[bcd]

Generally I agree. Groups can happily be classed as None.

There are times when I find classing Groups individually to be very useful.

In this case I'd include a filter in the script to preserve this functionality.

 

eg. for an assembly of 3 Groups of components on one Layer. Group 1, Group 2 & Group 3 can be displayed in a SLVP as the full assembly and its easy to turn off or grey Group 2 & 3 to show Group 1 alone.

Yes, this can also be done with Layers, but with multiple such assemblies in a drawing and Layers being used for higher order organization classing Groups in this way works very well & it's quick, understandable & reproducible.

[Pat Stanford]

Scripts can't be bound to a keystroke. But scripts can be converted to PIO Menu Commands, Added to a workspace, and then have a keystroke added.

 

Take a look at the Super Short Training PDFs in the attached thread for detailed steps.

 

 

[shorter]

23 hours ago, grant_PD said:

This is a really great script!  Can anyone tell me how to bind this script to the hotkey command for grouping? I've never assigned a vectorscript to a hotkey before....

 

create a tool/command, add it to your workspace, and then add a keyboard shortcut.