Creating Symbols

[willofmaine]

In trying to figure out a standard protocol for making symbols, I've been 'disecting' some of the VW default symbols. What a mess I've made of a couch and a chair! Anyway... I have found that they (the hybrid symbols) always seem to consist of meshes, rather than solids. Why is this? I realize meshes offer more flexibility, but don't they also require more memory, having so many vertices? For example, a sphere has 6 grips, but converted to a mesh an 18" sphere appears to have hundreds of vertices. Any thoughts would be helpful!!

Thanks, Will

[Robert Anderson]

Will, if you're looking at the Knoll Classics furniture, the reason that there are meshes is that is what we imported (as the 3D in this library is imported). Your point is correct -- certainly a regular shape such as a sphere can be stored more efficiently than a mesh, but many of the shapes in furniture are significantly more complex than can be described by "Platonic solids".

Thanks for your question, and feel free to follow up!

[willofmaine]

Ah...yes, indeed, I was in the Knoll library. Don't think they'll be asking me to do furniture design after what I did to their couch! But thanks for your answer; that all makes sense now.

[Jonathan Pickup]

the trick with creating symbols... that is not an easy thing to answer, it would take a whole user group meeting to tell you this stuff. there are symbols for 3D work, symbols for 3D visualisation and some the do both...

[Petri]

...but in short:

Make at least two 2D-representations and one or two 3D-representations (less detailed & more detailed in both cases) and use classes for them. If you want to use standard classes inside symbols, make groups of the said representations and put the groups in your specific "symbol detail level" classes.

Now you can generate a, say, 1:100 overall plan with simple furniture and a 1:50 more detailed and tagged one. You would use the less detailed view also ?n exports to consultants.

When pondering the proportions and symmetry of spaces, you'd use the simple 3D, when trying to impress the client, the detailed 3D.

[willofmaine]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I imported a column that I'd made in another project into my current project, and it took some time to even get it to show up. I clearly need to achieve some consistency in my symbol making! Aside from the several classes the column existed in being turned off, I also had to struggle with the columns history in trying to change its color (symbol > 2 solid intersections & sweep > the original extrudes > the extruded polygons). It seems I had to go to every step of it's history and make sure all the components were in the correct (Style-1) class and using "by class" before it turned red. Is there any way to take an object with a history and in one or two steps change them to the desired class and/or attributes? Thanks!

[Petri]

Start by getting rid of classes called Style-1 etc.

[willofmaine]

I figured if my column is the same color as my window trim, I may as well use "Style-1" which, as I understand it, is automatically generated by VW for window and door components and can not be changed or re-named........... (quick experiment)......... oh, nice, they can be re-named. New with VW 12.5??

Does the Layer & Class Mapping tool not apply to classes of components of a symbol? I mapped my column to fewer, simpler layers, and all it's components seemed to simply go to the "None" class...

[Petri]

If you use (as it seems) the Column object, it kindly creates these silly classes. There is a Minister of Silly Classes at NNA, paid to make our lives miserable.

You can, and should, modify the pop-up list value choices of all NNA objects, to make them useful.

[willofmaine]

I was wrong in my previous post: even though you can rename "Style-1," back in the windows setting box, it's still called "Style-1" and, if you use it for another part, the "Style-1" class is regenerated in the list of classes. I actually wasn't using the Column object, but had modeled a column from scratch, and I would not have created a class called "Style-1" if I had not been trying to take advantage of an already existing class, used to control the color of the window trim, to also control the color of the column. Is there a way to control a window's appearance other than with the "View" tab and the 15 pre-determined style classes?...

[mike m oz]

Hopefully with the next version we will finally see the end of the incredibly non user friendly Style-1, Style-2 etc. nonsense. As a protocol it outlived its use by date a long time ago. That was about 1 day.

Edited December 24, 2006 by mike m oz

[Petri]

Is there a way to control a window's appearance other than with the "View" tab and the 15 pre-determined style classes?...

No, but you can enter your own values with the Plug-In editor. A rather unappealing task, but a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. While you are at it, you may also want to change some default dimensions.

They should of course be in editable setting text files and we indeed wish that to be implemented in the next release. A file for each plug-in, thank you. Glazing classes and maybe some others can be shared.

[Guest]

Hi I posted a post on "Door - Why?" and it looks as a new bie the same kinda problem ? The moment you take a door symbol it creates a Ceiling,Sill Class. If you select and fit under your own Class name it is operating but the Threshold part keep on linked to a Style and if you transfer it to your own created class, it just does not take the aplied texture.

The Plug-in that is available - how does you acces it and how do you go about to change parameters ?

And Mike - Thank You for all your help - I appreciate the assistance you gave me.

Wonderfull people on the forum

A Merry Christmas and a Very Prosperous New Year to all..

We don't have a White Chrismas Holiday here but at least we can make good use of all the sun and beaches.

[Petri]

The actual behaviour & configuration of PIOs vary. Some have things like this "hard-coded", ie. written into the program code. (Parametric objects, such as the Door, are actually programs.)

I don't use the NNA door object (I've created my own), but if you invoke the said Plug-In editor, you may be able to change the classes by way of changing the pop-up lists or other types of values that are shown in the Object Info. I'm sure this is at least somehow covered in the help/documentation, maybe in VectorScript or Customization.

[willofmaine]

Quote:

"No, but you can enter your own values with the Plug-In editor" & "While you are at it, you may also want to change some default dimensions."

Petri - I might stay away from the Plug-In Editor for a bit, and just keep a wriiten (yeah, I know, with a pen, on a piece of paper...) list of what my various Style classes are used for. Regarding the default dimensions, though, can't I just simply adjust those in the Settings dialogue and save them into a template file?

I'm having lots of trouble with windows (jambs show as a step across the sill; there are holes in sections behind the trim; sills are in bigger white boxes when rendered) so I'm not againts creating my own windows and doors. But, how do you quickly change the size of a window so created? Is there a way to create parametrics that keep, say, the sash raisl 2" regardlesss of the overall height of the sash?...

clb - I think I saw your post on doors. Can't you control the color/texture of your threshold by going to the View tab and setting the Sill, under "Special Classes," to be controlled by one of the Style classes (and of course set the color/texture in that Style class as desired)?

-Will

[Petri]

Petri - I might stay away from the Plug-In Editor for a bit, and just keep a wriiten (yeah, I know, with a pen, on a piece of paper...) list of what my various Style classes are used for.

Whatever. It just would be a lot easier - and you would not run out of "styles" so easily.

Regarding the default dimensions, though, can't I just simply adjust those in the Settings dialogue and save them into a template file?

Naturally. However, if you adjust the window settings here, door settings there, stair settings elsewhere, it can get difficult. However, as you seem to live in the Inchland, not as difficult as for the vast majority of VW users.

I'm not againts creating my own windows and doors. But, how do you quickly change the size of a window so created? Is there a way to create parametrics that keep, say, the sash raisl 2" regardlesss of the overall height of the sash?...

Ohh, that's easy. A quite decent simple window (I don't want or need the level of detail available in NNA plug-ins) only requires some 300-500 lines of program code. Definitely not over 1000 lines.

[willofmaine]

I'll look into the Plug-In Editor more. You lost me on window settings here and door setttings there and why being in Inchland might make that less of an issue. When you talk about 500 lines of program code, I assume you're talking about VectorScript? I'm not really a programmer, as it turns out, so 500 lines sounds a bit intimidating to me. I see VS as "wow, look what I can do with this software...if I want to" And I might want to for something unique. But having to learn and do programming for basic windows in an architectural CAD program seems a bit questionable to me... or maybe I'm completely missing something here. Anyway, thanks for your feedback!