BIM best practice layer and storey naming for workgroup referencing

[Christiaan]

I'm using a current project to update our workflow to BIM best practice, specifically:

• Any projects with multiple buildings will have a separate file for each building
• Separate file for site model
• And all files will be set up with correct real-world coordinates and orientation, relying on rotated view to work with models.

I'm going to assume it's still best these days to use Layer Import mode. In which case I need to ensure all design layers are uniquely named across all files in the project. But do I also need to do this for Story names? What about Level Types?

[Jeff Prince]

52 minutes ago, Christiaan said:

And all files will be set up with correct real-world coordinates and orientation, relying on rotated view to work with models.

Yuck.

I don’t get why anyone would want their building files tied to real world orientation, that’s what site models are for.  I’ve worked on international airports and university campuses with multiple buildings being constructed simultaneously… everyone preferred the buildings to be located on the site, not their building file.  Why are architects wanting to do this in recent years?

[Christiaan]

Because referencing (layer import and layer viewport) and copy paste in place workflows use the User Origin for their relative positioning between source and target.

 

Being able to copy paste in place or workgroup reference without any further steps is not only much faster but removes the risk of error. I wish I'd done it years ago. In fact I tried but abandoned it because of the way rotated view worked back then. Since then either rotated view has got better or I have.

[Jeff Prince]

Hmmm.   I still don’t get it.

must be a case of different strokes for different folks.

 

Within a building file, copy/paste works fine.  On a site, sliding and rotating different building references around works fine.  Seems doing real world orientation within a building file just creates a lot of work for other consultants, especially if a building moves.

[Christiaan]

1 minute ago, jeff prince said:

Within a building file, copy/paste works fine.  

Sure, but what about when you want to copy/paste or reference information to another building file or the site file?

 

1 minute ago, jeff prince said:

On a site, sliding and rotating different building references around works fine.

Each and every one of those actions is an opportunity for error and something that doesn't even need to be done if origins are synced across files.

 

1 minute ago, jeff prince said:

Seems doing real world orientation within a building file just creates a lot of work for other consultants, especially if a building moves.

Well I don't know about other software but when sharing models in a BIM workflow the internal origin needs to be in the same place in all models. 

 

[Jeff Prince]

2 minutes ago, Christiaan said:

Well I don't know about other software but when sharing models in a BIM workflow the internal origin needs to be in the same place in all models

Right, but it does not have to be tied to real world location and orientation, just a common agreed upon system.

 

I don’t think we are going to convince each other of the merits of our respective systems 🙂

[Jeff Prince]

lost the rest of my responses....

 

9 minutes ago, Christiaan said:

Sure, but what about when you want to copy/paste or reference information to another building file or the site file?

 

You don't just do that once the references are set up.  Changes to the building happen in the building file and magically update the site.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Christiaan said:

Each and every one of those actions is an opportunity for error and something that doesn't even need to be done if origins are synced across files.

 

I position building on the site model to let the architect know where they belong.  Once this is done, you just lock them and there is no risk of movement.

[Christiaan]

6 minutes ago, jeff prince said:

Right, but it does not have to be tied to real world location and orientation, just a common agreed upon system.

 

I don’t think we are going to convince each other of the merits of our respective systems 🙂

To be honest I don't completely understand origins so I could be missing something. But so far having the User Origin and Internal Origin synced across my files I find is great. I just wouldn't mind some tweaks to the way rotated view works.

[Christiaan]

1 minute ago, jeff prince said:

You don't just do that once the references are set up.  Changes to the building happen in the building file and magically update the site.

You have to do it for each file you set up. And a copy paste workflow across files just doesn't work.

 

1 minute ago, jeff prince said:

I position building on the site model to let the architect know where they belong.  Once this is done, you just lock them and there is no risk of movement.

The workflow I'm using is that I set up my first file by importing the survey or OS Map, setting up my origins and choosing a datum. I've done that once for the whole project because I then save this file as a project template file and used it create my site file and building files. When I then reference or copy and paste information across files I don't need to do anything. And neither do my colleagues. It all just works without any offsetting required.

[Tom W.]

29 minutes ago, Christiaan said:

The workflow I'm using is that I set up my first file by importing the survey or OS Map, setting up my origins and choosing a datum. I've done that once for the whole project because I then save this file as a project template file and used it create my site file and building files.

 

This is what I do. 

[Christiaan]

That's good confirmation I'm doing it the best way then 😁

 

[Jeff Prince]

18 minutes ago, Christiaan said:

That's good confirmation I'm doing it the best way then 😁

 

You gents must not work with buildings that are repeated around a site or prototype building that are placed on multiple sites 🙂

 

[Tom W.]

I think it depends on the nature of the project.

 

One project I have three identical new buildings on a single site so I have a single building model file where I drew the building square to x/y + imported it into the site model file as a referenced DLVP then duplicated the DLVP twice + rotated/moved/raised the DVLPs accordingly. Here I knew the size/shape of the building so didn't need to coordinate it with the topo file when drawing it. This is the Jeff method I think + in this project it works great.

 

Another project I have the topo survey in each of the files like Christiaan as a background reference + everything is drawn relative to the survey. Existing buildings are drawn in their own files at correct elevations + correct location + orientation relative to the site + imported into the site model file as referenced DLVPs. They come straight in at exactly the right position. The main (new) building in contrast drew directly in the site model file. I have had quite a few issues with things like roof clipping failing in referenced files so didn't want my main building file as a reference. Plus it's a pain generating VPs from referenced DLVPs.

 

Another project again had multiple buildings all drawn in separate georeferenced files with the topo survey as a background layer + these I referenced into the site model file using Layer Import Referencing so I had much better control over layer/class visibilities as all the buildings were part of the project rather than just context. But I was still getting issues with things getting lost in translation between the source + target files so in the end I deleted the references + kept the geometry in the site model file so now have everything in one file. The increase in file size was marginal but everything is at least working as it should now. Again this was a project where the location of the buildings, new + existing, was fixed + relative to the topo survey.

 

[Christiaan]

That's very helpful Tom. Bookmarked for future reference.

[Christiaan]

3 hours ago, Christiaan said:

do I also need to do [have unique] Story names? What about Level Types? [when using Layer Import WGR]

Any thoughts on this @Tom W.?

[Tom W.]

3 minutes ago, Christiaan said:

Any thoughts on this @Tom W.?

 

Unfortunately not as I've never used Stories... My design layers were all uniquely named however like you say: the same names across all the files but with different suffixes depending on the building.

[Christiaan]

Well Layer Import method is not playing ball anyway. I'm getting these kinds of errors when I try to reference in the building layers.

 

[shorter]

That is what is known as a bug, @Christiaan 😉

[Christiaan]

6 hours ago, shorter said:

That is what is known as a bug, @Christiaan 😉

One of many I've experienced with WGR. The most common variance I get is that something looks one way in the model file but another way in the target file.