SECTION APPEARANCE

[setdesigner]

I am trying to control section profile line thickness and keeping the object's fill.

Only way I find is to make a viewport which doesn't have extend beyond (below) with a class line thickness on top of a viewport with extend and object's fill.

Any simpler way to achieve this ?

2022-12-17-HORIZONTAL-SECTION.vwx 2022-12-17-HORIZONTAL-SECTION.pdf

[Jeff Prince]

You used extrudes to create your wall like feature.

If you use an actual wall object, you can achieve what you wish...

...extrudes don't respect the "advanced properties" settings of the viewport.

[setdesigner]

Yes, I am aware. I made a really simple example but since I am designing theatre set, not all objects I create can be a wall or a slab. Or can a sweep or any solid be a wall ?

Thanks

[Jeff Prince]

40 minutes ago, setdesigner said:

Yes, I am aware. I made a really simple example but since I am designing theatre set, not all objects I create can be a wall or a slab. Or can a sweep or any solid be a wall ?

Thanks

 

I think you might find it easiest to just outline the desired profile in the viewport annotations or use the stacked viewports as you did in your example file.

[setdesigner]

Thanks for the advice, I will stop searching and follow this route

[Matt Panzer]

On 12/17/2022 at 2:07 PM, setdesigner said:

I am trying to control section profile line thickness and keeping the object's fill.

Only way I find is to make a viewport which doesn't have extend beyond (below) with a class line thickness on top of a viewport with extend and object's fill.

Any simpler way to achieve this ?

2022-12-17-HORIZONTAL-SECTION.vwx 3.58 MB · 1 download 2022-12-17-HORIZONTAL-SECTION.pdf 35.52 kB · 3 downloads

 

Profile lines in sections are only added to what Vectorworks sees as a "structural objects".  Objects like walls, slabs, roofs, stairs, etc. are always considered structural objects but other 3D objects can also be set to behave this way as well.  To do that, select the extrude objects (or other 3D objects) you want to add the profile line to and select the "Merge with structural objects in sections" checkbox in the Object Info palette.  Once you do that, update the section viewport (with the "Add Profile Line" option) and you should have what you need.

[setdesigner]

Thanks Matt,

I have tried that and could not make  profile line to show thicker. In this updated file, I have made 2 symbols, one is structural (FLAT-B), the FLAT-A is not.

In detail #3, I have checked Add profile line, but both show the same.

Any clues ?

2022-12-18-HORIZONTAL-SECTION.vwx

[line-weight]

My method for dealing with this is to control section line thickness by class.

 

A have a set of "materials classes" and each of these has a different hatch or fill, but the same line thickness as I want my section line thickness to be.

 

When I use "merge cross sections" (in the advanced properties for the VP) these class attributes are irrelevant and the section line is determined by a special "cut plane" class.

 

When I use "separate cross sections", then each different "material" has its own fill, and is outlined in the same section line thickness.

 

 

See modified version of your file attached below. I have renamed your classes "FLAT" and "TRIM" as I would name my materials classes.

 

 

2022-12-17-HORIZONTAL-SECTION.e.vwx

[line-weight]

12 minutes ago, setdesigner said:

Thanks Matt,

I have tried that and could not make  profile line to show thicker. In this updated file, I have made 2 symbols, one is structural (FLAT-B), the FLAT-A is not.

In detail #3, I have checked Add profile line, but both show the same.

Any clues ?

2022-12-18-HORIZONTAL-SECTION.vwx 5.05 MB · 0 downloads

 

Not 100% sure about this but I think this merging doesn't work when it's between symbols. If you had several extrudes in one symbol, then I think it would successfully merge them together.

 

I think the same is true for auto-hybrids, and this is one of the reasons I stopped using top/plan some time ago (I now only use horizontal sections) because using top/plan forces you to use auto-hybrids and you end up with "seam" lines where you actually want things to be drawn contiguous/merged.

[line-weight]

6 hours ago, Matt Panzer said:

 

Profile lines in sections are only added to what Vectorworks sees a "structural objects". 

 

Can I ask what the reasoning is behind this?

 

Because I would say, conventionally in a section drawing, certain elements aren't usually treated differently from others when it comes to what's drawn as cut.

 

I can see certain scenarios where you might want certain things, of the same material, *not* merged in section. It would, in my opinion, be more useful for everything to be merge-able by default, with an opt-out for special things, rather than the other way around. So, something like an extrude has the "structural object" box ticked by default, and the user can untick it if they want. (Or, the box is renamed "don't merge with similar-filled objects in section" and is unticked by default)

[Matt Panzer]

8 hours ago, line-weight said:

 

Can I ask what the reasoning is behind this?

 

Because I would say, conventionally in a section drawing, certain elements aren't usually treated differently from others when it comes to what's drawn as cut.

 

I can see certain scenarios where you might want certain things, of the same material, *not* merged in section. It would, in my opinion, be more useful for everything to be merge-able by default, with an opt-out for special things, rather than the other way around. So, something like an extrude has the "structural object" box ticked by default, and the user can untick it if they want. (Or, the box is renamed "don't merge with similar-filled objects in section" and is unticked by default)

Imagine a section through a building and having all cut doors and windows (and maybe some cut fixtures) having a heavy profile line around them along with the walls, slabs, etc.  The thick lines are too much for those more detailed objects and the drawing gets muddled.  That is the reasoning behind the default.

[Amorphous - Julian]

@Matt Panzer

i think we should consider both scenarios of ‘drawing for Archiecture’ (ie 1:100 scale) and ‘drawing for interiors’ (ie 1:20 scale)

 

what you said is true for the former but not the latter. For the latter we just want the outermost sectioned object line thickened (be it wall, windows, joinery, fitment). So I think the option of what to thicken should be given to the user and not predetermined by default.

[line-weight]

4 hours ago, Matt Panzer said:

Imagine a section through a building and having all cut doors and windows (and maybe some cut fixtures) having a heavy profile line around them along with the walls, slabs, etc.  The thick lines are too much for those more detailed objects and the drawing gets muddled.  That is the reasoning behind the default.

 

Can you give any examples in visual form of how it's envisaged that it would be used?

 

What you describe doesn't really match the kind of drawing conventions I'd follow, although of course everyone is different. To me, a section line is a section line - if you start drawing certain sectioned elements in thinner lines then the risk is that it's not clear if they are in elevation or section. The only part of a "cut plane" profile that I might change lineweight for would be glass - that is, the glass in a window but not the frames.

 

If thick lines are obscuring detail then either that detail needs to be drawn at a larger scale, or it needs to be drawn in simplified symbolic form (controlled by level-of-detail).

 

It's true that sometimes fixtures (like wash basins or furniture) can appear sliced in sections where you don't really want them to: in that case I would prefer just to omit them entirely if it would aid clarity. Showing them sectioned but in a different lineweight doesn't really remove confusion.

[setdesigner]

Thanks all for your feedback. @Matt Panzer Of course in an architectural horizontal section, no point in having a section line for every object. But in the case of theatre or film set design, I would like to control having a profile section line for all or for each type of object and keeping the objects graphic attributes, that I can use depending on the scale of the detail. I am trying to stop using 2d graphics in symbols or auto-hybrid, since I find that changing the 3d and the 2d makes modifications laborious.

@line-weight Thanks for you suggestion, but if I understand correctly, with this method the object below the cut plane use the same line thickness that the cut plane, and I would like to have control of both.

Here is and updated file.

2022-12-19-HORIZONTAL-SECTION.vwx 2022-12-19-HORIZONTAL-SECTION.pdf

[Matt Panzer]

@Amorphous - Julian, @line-weight, @setdesigner,

I see you points about larger scale sections.  I think a separate option would need to be added in the Advanced Properties dialog to choose whether structural objects, or all objects get the profile.

 

Could one of you post a wish here?: https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/forum/19-wishlist-feature-and-content-requests/

This will allow everyone to upvote and comment on it there so it gets more weight.

[line-weight]

2 hours ago, setdesigner said:

 

@line-weight Thanks for you suggestion, but if I understand correctly, with this method the object below the cut plane use the same line thickness that the cut plane, and I would like to have control of both.

 

 

I missed something out, which is that I have a class that's for anything drawn in 2d elevation (ie beyond the cut plane). I have made one called 2d-elevation in your file. Then I set "objects below cut plane" like this:

 

 

With this result - the elevation of the stool is now drawn in the line type assigned to that class.

(note for some reason it's now merged those panels... not sure why that has changed now...)

 

 

2022-12-17-HORIZONTAL-SECTION.e2.vwx

Edited December 19, 2022 by line-weight

[line-weight]

7 hours ago, Matt Panzer said:

@Amorphous - Julian, @line-weight, @setdesigner,

I see you points about larger scale sections.  I think a separate option would need to be added in the Advanced Properties dialog to choose whether structural objects, or all objects get the profile.

 

Could one of you post a wish here?: https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/forum/19-wishlist-feature-and-content-requests/

This will allow everyone to upvote and comment on it there so it gets more weight.

 

Done!

 

 

[Matt Panzer]

18 hours ago, line-weight said:

Done!

 

 

Thank you!