Chris D

Wow, the wonders of modern feet and inches! We share a language (for the most part). Thank God we don't share a measurement system. Surely feet/inches/yards with a mixture of fractions and decimals means you guys make calculation errors all the time? I can't understand why you hang on to this archaic system when the rest of the world has gone metric. It would certainly ease your spreadsheet formulas...

The Revit user seemed to be moaning more about the changes to the model tools rather than about the interface. I don't find the Ribbon interface that bad, it just needs the frequently used 2D draw/edit tools to be always visible. For once I disagree with Christiaan - I really don't like the Aperture interface or those similar Apple apps like Pages or Numbers...I find them a pain to work with. I think MS has the edge on usability, despite the clutter in some of their latest apps. The way I see it, the dynamic ribbon is simply taking the VW toolsets palette and doing it horizontally, with an enhanced version of the VW mode bar (which is dynamic) below it. I disagree that the VW interface isn't broke - it's a mess, with attributes detached from other object properties, two sets of class/layer settings, no controls over frequently used preferences (like View Line Thickness, Edit in Groups etc) and it needs tidying up to free up space for a more pictorial Object Info palette amongst other things. There is good and bad in the Revit interface, and some of it might be useful.

I agree More visual feedback is something I've argued for before. Others fear the visual clutter, but that's what Preferences are for... - Overridden dimensions display in red - Linked (referenced) symbols display a chain symbol - Locked objects display a lock symbol

We run jobs nearly 10 times this size on Vectorworks (12.5 and 2008), but we don't do anything fancy - 2D drafting mainly with separate files for each building and each projection. We also don't run off the server for the most part - you get far less crashing if you work on files locally and then file them back on the server at the end of the day. If a file is over 20Mb we generally split it. I haven't used Microstation since it last ran on Macs, which must be 9 or 10 years ago, so can't comment (it was a terrible program back then...)

I've felt a bit out of touch, not having VW2009. I can't wishlist things - they might already have been included! Here's hoping that we move to VW2010 in September, if our finances permit...then I can start badgering the wishlist again...

Two people supporting Attributes on the Info palette? And no outcry? http://techboard.vectorworks.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=88529 I was nearly lynched for such sensible thinking...

We use dashed lines whether they swing in or out - must be a UK thing. Maybe there's a convention, but I've never come across it. The rest of Europe has a different convention for where the hinge is too - in the UK the lines converge on the hinge - I believe it's the opposite on the continent. No idea about the US ;-)

I think OzCAD set the bar too high for what can be expected of a local reseller - they go the extra km... and then some.. I haven't seen VW2009 (the downturn means I'm not likely to), but in general the US slant in terminology and that bloody outdated measurement system you use does make the program feel foreign to us here in the UK.

Thanks for the conference feedback - pity I couldn't make it down from Nottingham. Nice wishlist too. Now you've cast your eyes over 2009 - what are the improvements to the Resource Browser like? any good? BTW we ask this every year - why can't NNA put a demo version of VW on their website so people can review it properly before buying? I feel I have to read a hundred posts on the techboard just to snatch a flavour of what's in the new version (yeah I've read the blurb and watched the vids...but that's just marketing...I mean what's really in the new version...?).

Setting doors relative to the end of a wall looks like it will be really useful. We regularly have to set doors 100mm from a return wall to leave room for an architrave, and also have to use the 300mm-on-the-pull-side-of-a-door rule for Part M (UK accessibility regs).

The odd thing is....you can edit Wikipedia anonymously...maybe he was testing our powers of observation... You got your hands on 2009 yet Christiaan? I'm itching to get a copy....

- Edit Symbols in context - Improved Resource Browser - UK Wall Styles Santa's brought a few of my wishes early! The new Visibility Tool sounds great (sounds like it should have been there all along....)

0 is at the top, and easy to find, unlike None. 0 is better for export, not just to AutoCAD but I'm pretty sure we used it in my Microstation days too. 0 is definitely used as an active layer (class) in AutoCAD, just as much as None is used in the VW world. HOWEVER, Getting rid of None is impossible in VW, you just can't rename it to 0 as it gets constantly regenerated by plug-ins like the door/window tools. off-topic: the strange class CEILING-MAIN also gets constantly regenerated by the door tool, which drives me up the wall!! You can't rename it, you can't map it...it just keeps coming back...and for non-US users the stupidity of having a door component named after a ceiling (the underside of a door head is a soffit in the UK) is enough to make you bang your head on the desk.

You can do this for Sheet Layer Viewports, but not for Design Layer Viewports, unless they fixed it recently.

Three REALLY annoying things about the door tool (which just demonstrate a lack of knowledge of how doors are designed and scheduled in the UK, and probably other countries too): 1. Structural Opening size (can I hear a 'yay' from my countrymen?). Doors in the UK are sized, designed, scheduled and ordered by Structural Opening Size, NOT by the leaf (panel) size. Frame thickness and panel size can vary between manufacturers. The primary 'door size' element of the Door object MUST refer to the SO size and NOT the panel size. [oh quick lesson - SO is the frame size plus packing/tolerance zone] 2. Project Door Types Doors are almost always scheduled into 'Types', ie. if I have a typical 910-SO door, with no vision panel, 30 mins fire rating, with hardware package 'A', then that will become a project Door Type. I need to be able to set up door types, use them, manage them and schedule them as TYPES, not as individual doors. My last job had 1500 doors, with 15 or so TYPES. Naturally I didn't use the so-called Door Tool. 3. Scheduling The trouble with scheduling is that it's fine on McMansions, but not on apartment blocks. If you have Apartment Types whose floor plans are symbolised for management, then you simply can't schedule the doors within the apartments in any sensible way. I need to be able to have the door number know which apartment it is in - and therefore need to schedule by hand. The scheduler is a gimmick at the moment, and one that is unwieldy, inflexible and difficult to use.

I'm gonna re-post my door rant in a new topic that can be searched and tracked better.

I think I understand you..

And the DOOR TOOL too!! Three REALLY annoying things about the door tool (which just demonstrate a lack of knowledge of how doors are designed and scheduled in the UK): 1. Structural Opening size (can I hear a 'yay' from my countrymen?). Doors in the UK are sized, designed, scheduled and ordered by Structural Opening Size, NOT by the leaf (panel) size. Frame thickness and panel size can vary between manufacturers. The primary 'door size' element of the Door object MUST refer to the SO size and NOT the panel size. [oh quick lesson - SO is the frame size plus packing/tolerance zone] 2. Project Door Types Doors are almost always scheduled into 'Types', ie. if I have a typical 910-SO door, with no vision panel, 30 mins fire rating, with hardware package 'A', then that will become a project Door Type. I need to be able to set up door types, use them, manage them and schedule them as TYPES, not as individual doors. My last job had 1500 doors, with 15 or so TYPES. Naturally I didn't use the so-called Door Tool. 3. Scheduling The trouble with scheduling is that it's fine on McMansions, but not on apartment blocks. If you have Apartment Types whose floor plans are symbolised for management, then you simply can't schedule the doors within the apartments in any sensible way. I need to be able to have the door number know which apartment it is in - and therefore need to schedule by hand. The scheduler is a gimmick at the moment, and one that is unwieldy, inflexible and difficult to use. /end of semi-off-topic rant

My eyes hurt. Anyone find anything compelling in this list, or should I wait until the bugs are ironed out?

Ah, the eternal mysteries of the wishlist... To be fair to NNA, you're not banging your head against a brick wall here - they do seem to implement the stuff that gets wishlisted most often (within reason). You won't get them to commit to a timetable though. Bear in mind too, that the next .5 release is probably feature complete a long time before it's released.

I'm digging this topic back up - just because I remembered this complex discussion about layer/viewport colours, but had forgot the solution - and it deserves a wider audience.. To recap: Common scenario: say I have a building plan, drawn in colour. I also want to use this plan as a Fire Plan, where the base plan now appears in black and white and only the Fire information in colour. I could use a class for the fire info, and override classes in the viewport, but that's laborious and would involve duplicate hatches anyway to create mono versions of each hatch. Better solution (thanks again Pat) I draw the Fire information on a separate design layer and use Viewport Layer Colours as follows: When I produce my viewport, I can use a tiny little toggle that you may not even notice. Select the viewport and click on the Layers button - you can see a narrow column to the right of the Layer Names - it has no title and may well be completely blank OR it may have little coloured icons in it already. Clicking next to a layer name will toggle the coloured icon on/off for each layer. This icon controls LAYER COLOURS and allows you to override the colours of all objects on a layer. I now simply select EDIT>COLORS for each of the layers, and set my Base Plan layer to black and white, and my Fire Plan layer to red and white. Hey presto, you've done it. The beauty of layer colours, as opposed to class colours, is that hatches don't need to be duplicated - the setting will simply turn you hatch base colour to white, and your hatch linework to black - nice and easy. So what of the wishlist? PLEASE NNA make this column more obvious - it doesn't even have a title heading!! Also, why not have the icons greyed out instead of completely invisible, when not using layer colours.

Drag 'n' Drop is just one of many improvements that I'd like to see made to the Resource Browser. My post back in September lists some more: http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=12&Number=86030

How useful is ANY format CAD drawing on a 3.5 inch screen? Now put VW Viewer on an iPAD or whatever they'll call a Newton replacement, then sure - great for meetings instead of lugging your laptop around. Especially with one of those micro projectors...[ this is more Fantasy List than Wish List... ;-) ]

Agreed. Adding or updating a (external file) reference can be painfully slow. Opening the very same file can be done in a flash, so why would it take so long to reference it? (I'm talking about 2008 referencing too)

Agreed. Ideally you would be able to specify a destination symbol folder in a symbol's attributes, the way you can specify its destination class. Either that, or as I have wishlisted previously, a symbol should respect its source folder in its destination file - and magically file itself (you could toggle this in document preferences). On a similar note, when you reference a symbol into a file, its sub-symbols should file themselves in a folder based on the symbol's name, rather than clutter up the root symbol folder in your Resource Browser.