Pillar height set by layer wall height?

[Mark Aceto]

Is there a way to do this? I tried using the Wall tool but the geometry went haywire. Stories are not an option for this (or any) workflow.

[Guest Wes Gardner]

@Mark Aceto it looks like the only way to set the height of a pillar is to manually type in a height in the "Height" field - there is no automated method...

 

Wes

 

 

[Mark Aceto]

1 hour ago, Wes Gardner said:

@Mark Aceto it looks like the only way to set the height of a pillar is to manually type in a height in the "Height" field - there is no automated method...

 

Wes

 

 

 

Thanks, Wes. That's what I'm doing until I find a better way. I was just wondering if there's a workaround with another PIO that can "extrude" a poly and also be bound by Layer Wall Height. I thought maybe the Slab tool would by editing components but it won't.

 

I don't know if this is an oversight or WAD (or both). Should I submit a VE to add the height widget to the Pillar tool? Are there any other tools missing this?

 

 

For context, I've had to screenshot my Organization dialog (Layers tab), and leave that image open at all times to reference layer elevations and heights for tools that don't have this functionality. Obviously, that's not a streamlined workflow.

 

[Tom W.]

Liberal use of screenshots is a massive part of my workflow too!

 

Can you post some shots of what you're doing with the Pillars be interested to see...?

[michaelk]

@Mark Aceto

 

Could you use a wall projection instead?  For its height it uses an offset of the wall height (0 by default) so the height of the projection changes with the height of the wall.

 

I've never looked at the inner workings of Pillars before.  They go back to MiniCad 7!  And they don't have a record like most parametric objects.  It's a menu command, and not a tool.

 

If you want a Pillar that is just like a Pillar, but can be edited with a worksheet (and has handles to resize) try this.  

 

(I wanted to call it "Pillary" to keep the naming convention of Cabby, Shelfy, etc., but "Pillary" doesn't sound good.)

Marks Pillar.vso

 

 

PS.  This one only does rectangular pillars.  One of the cool things about the Pillar object is that it's independent of the shape.  If you need a different simple shape, let me know.

 

[Tom W.]

2 minutes ago, michaelk said:

Could you use a wall projection instead?  For its height it uses an offset of the wall height (0 by default) so the height of the projection changes with the height of the wall.

I tried this it didn't work...?

[michaelk]

1 hour ago, Tom W. said:

I tried this it didn't work...?

 

Draw a wall.  Draw a rectangle, oval, circle, polyline, polygon, etc that intersects the wall.  Select the wall and the shape.  AEC > Create Wall Projection…

 

That should get you a shape that works as a bulge in the wall.

[Tom W.]

Yes but when i change the wall height the projection disappears...

[Mark Aceto]

3 hours ago, Tom W. said:

Liberal use of screenshots is a massive part of my workflow too!

 

Can you post some shots of what you're doing with the Pillars be interested to see...?

 

If there's a better workflow, please advise.

 

First, I cleaned up the poly's from the DWG to convert them all to a Pillar object in one fell swoop:

 

 

Then, I copy pasted them onto every layer:

 

 

Then, I took a screenshot of the Org dialog, and manually edited the height of each "Pillar" object based on layer heights in the screenshot on another display.

 

However, for all of the structural members, both vertical and horizontal:

1. I left the Z at 0
2. Bound the start at layer elevation
3. Bound the end at layer height
4. Offset for slabs

 

It's not like manually entering the height of 5 objects is that time-consuming. I would just like to be able to bind the height of Pillar objects the same way I do for Walls, Columns, Pilasters... and not have to reference a screen shot of my layer heights.

 

I must be missing something or using the wrong tool... 

 

Edited December 22, 2021 by Mark Aceto

[Mark Aceto]

Btw you fellas may also know why most of my grid bubbles are flipped in 3D views (but not in Plan view):

 

[Mark Aceto]

3 hours ago, michaelk said:

(I wanted to call it "Pillary" to keep the naming convention of Cabby, Shelfy, etc., but "Pillary" doesn't sound good.)

 

I really just want you to make "Eave" and "Wally":

 

 

[michaelk]

46 minutes ago, Mark Aceto said:

 

If there's a better workflow, please advise.

 

I think you got it!  No need for Pillary.

[Mark Aceto]

3 hours ago, michaelk said:

I think you got it!  No need for Pillary.

 

Is there really no PIO that will extrude a poly, and bind to layer elevation / height with offsets? The fact that this is object is called a "Pillar" is academic at best. It could be called anything... like how floors are countertops or whatever we need them to be.

 

@Wes Gardner for context, I can select every single Structural Member--both horizontal and vertical members--on every single layer in the drawing, and offset the top by -6". I can't think of anything more streamlined than that. There must be a way to do that for this "Pillar" workflow (extruded polys from an as-built DWG plan) that I'm missing.

[Mark Aceto]

6 hours ago, michaelk said:

 

Draw a wall.  Draw a rectangle, oval, circle, polyline, polygon, etc that intersects the wall.  Select the wall and the shape.  AEC > Create Wall Projection…

 

That should get you a shape that works as a bulge in the wall.

 

I was thinking in the long run, this would serve me well because what's on the DWG floor plan as a "column" includes what would be walls in VW (that will also get windows, doors... ).

 

However, I ran into the same issue as @Tom W.:

 

 

So, now there are 2 plugins related to layer wall height that don't bind to layer wall height. Adding insult to injury, there are OIP fields for offset but not that offset.

 

This is the drum I keep banging about tools that are 80% finished. How was this not a consideration / still not a function of the Feature In Wall PIO after all these years? Even if it just added the option to take on the height settings of the wall it's in... 

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Mark Aceto

[Tom W.]

9 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

 

If there's a better workflow, please advise.

 

First, I cleaned up the poly's from the DWG to convert them all to a Pillar object in one fell swoop:

 

 

Then, I copy pasted them onto every layer:

 

 

Then, I took a screenshot of the Org dialog, and manually edited the height of each "Pillar" object based on layer heights in the screenshot on another display.

 

However, for all of the structural members, both vertical and horizontal:

1. I left the Z at 0
2. Bound the start at layer elevation
3. Bound the end at layer height
4. Offset for slabs

 

It's not like manually entering the height of 5 objects is that time-consuming. I would just like to be able to bind the height of Pillar objects the same way I do for Walls, Columns, Pilasters... and not have to reference a screen shot of my layer heights.

 

I must be missing something or using the wrong tool... 

 

 

The only alternative I can think of would be to select the polygons + convert them into Walls instead of Pillars, + show the features as hollow instead of solid:

 

 

But I think I'd prefer to do it your way.

 

It does highlight how limited the options are when it comes to binding object height/thickness to layer wall height or levels. Similar issue to below:

 

 

[Mark Aceto]

13 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

The only alternative I can think of would be to select the polygons + convert them into Walls instead of Pillars, + show the features as hollow instead of solid:

I tried that but the geometry was so tight, I would’ve had to make the walls 1” thick (or less). I also prefer the solid fill in plan view (I even considered an Auto Hybrid at one point).

 

At this point, I’d like to round up all the architectural tools that are missing the Height widget / fields, so I can submit a VE to bring them all up to speed:

• Pillar
• Feature in Wall
• (placeholder)
• (placeholder)
• (placeholder)

[michaelk]

Here's a possible workflow:

 

Select all the geometry from the dwg.  Copy or Cut.

 

Draw a rectangle.  AEC>Pillar…

 

Double click the Pillar.  Paste in Place.  Delete the rectangle.

 

It doesn't solve the issue with Pillars not being aware of the layer wall height or not having offsets to the layer elevation or layer wall height, but it lets you use the best feature of pillars:  You can join walls to them.

 

You have a different OIP for Wall Projections that I do.  (Is one of us using an old beta?). Mine follows the height of the wall.

 

[Tom W.]

I have checked in VW2021 + here the wall projection behaves as you'd expect: change the wall height + the projection follows suit. But in VW2022 it doesn't - for me at least. When I change the wall height the projection disappears. But it's working for you @michaelk in VW2022?

[Tom W.]

1 hour ago, Mark Aceto said:

I tried that but the geometry was so tight, I would’ve had to make the walls 1” thick (or less). I also prefer the solid fill in plan view (I even considered an Auto Hybrid at one point).

 

At this point, I’d like to round up all the architectural tools that are missing the Height widget / fields, so I can submit a VE to bring them all up to speed:

• Pillar
• Feature in Wall
• (placeholder)
• (placeholder)
• (placeholder)

 

For me, I'd love to see the Pillar Tool revamped to become a proper 'Custom Wall' tool where they have all the functionality of Walls in terms of top/bot offsets, styles, components, reporting, etc.

 

I'd be happy seeing the Wall Recess/Projection tools superseded by the same Add/Subtract 3D Object functionality you have with Slabs

[Tom W.]

2 minutes ago, Mark Aceto said:

If that feature was deprecated in v2022, one of two things will have happened:

1. I’ll lose my mind
2. It may have been replaced with that functionally somewhere else

Also wondering if there’s a legacy version of that command / PIO buried in v2022… 

 

To me, the tool looks the same in VW2021 + VW2022 (the OIP is the same as Michael's screenshot), it's just it works in VW2021 + not in VW2022!

[Mark Aceto]

2 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

I'd be happy seeing the Wall Recess/Projection tools superseded by the same Add/Subtract 3D Object functionality you have with Slabs

Please no! Michael has tried to teach me the proper way to edit slab modifiers and I still can’t get it right. I just have to start over every time because half of them will work in 2D plan and then disappear in 3D. I’m starting to see a theme here… 

[Mark Aceto]

1 hour ago, michaelk said:

Here's a possible workflow:

 

Select all the geometry from the dwg.  Copy or Cut.

 

Draw a rectangle.  AEC>Pillar…

From memory, I think you just have to select the geometry before running the Pillar command (sort of like Create objects from shape).

[Tom W.]

7 minutes ago, Mark Aceto said:

Please no! Michael has tried to teach me the proper way to edit slab modifiers and I still can’t get it right. I just have to start over every time because half of them will work in 2D plan and then disappear in 3D. I’m starting to see a theme here… 

 

I really like Add/Subtract 3D Object to Slab! But I know others don't... I think it's a really useful tool to have in the tool box. Three Slabs in a current project:

 

 

 

Walls in comparison feel a lot less flexible. You shouldn't have to create a special wall hole component symbol to 'sculpt' the surface/edge of a wall: you should be able to just subtract the geometry in the model like you do with Slabs. I mean in circumstances where create wall recess doesn't work which is 99% of the time for me.

 

[Mark Aceto]

8 hours ago, Tom W. said:

 

I really like Add/Subtract 3D Object to Slab! But I know others don't... I think it's a really useful tool to have in the tool box. Three Slabs in a current project:

 

 

 

Walls in comparison feel a lot less flexible. You shouldn't have to create a special wall hole component symbol to 'sculpt' the surface/edge of a wall: you should be able to just subtract the geometry in the model like you do with Slabs. I mean in circumstances where create wall recess doesn't work which is 99% of the time for me.

 

 

Yes, you helped me with that earlier this year, and it worked wonderfully!

 

I was thinking of adding/clipping with modifiers (to the original 2D poly) which is an unexpected nightmare of inconsistency.

[Mark Aceto]

@Wes Gardnerdid the features (pardon the pun) that were in the Feature In Wall command/tool get moved somewhere else in the app / worflow or were they removed entirely?

 

Screenshot of both OIP's below. Notice that, among other things, "Offset From Wall Top" has been removed:

 

 

There's also a ton of functionality that seems to be missing. In v2021, I could draw a 2D poly and run the command. If I try that in v2022, the command bails without an error message.

 

Meanwhile, with extrudes in v2022, I keep getting this error message about a "manifold": 

 

 

Changing plane to Layer or Automatic, view from 2d to 3d, or ortho to perspective doesn't seem to fix it. Sometimes, flipping the extrude on its side works but others it does not. Trying to change the first 2 options in the OIP (v2022) will do nothing (they'll reset themselves to the default displayed in the screenshot).

 

Is this WAD? What happened? It worked fine v2021.

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Mark Aceto