curtainwall+storefront

[stephanie]

hello, thank you for helping

i have been using autocad 2000, now, i am considering various BIM options, and vectorworks is definitively one of them. i have some newbie quesions, please be patient with me

does VWA do curtainwall, storefront, storefront entrance, glass vent, aluminum windows, i.e. kawneer type of systems? i have been told that marvin and andersen windows are included in the intelligent object libraries.

with the custom windows, is it possible to offset the glazing in relation to the jamb? e.g. the flush condition.

what is the difficulty level of creating a new intelligent object like a window for exemple?

again, back to kawneer, they have a lot of 2d cad details in .dwg ; how easy is it to generate an object in vectorworks from them?

well, that was long! thank you very much for your time spent on this subject.

[Robert Anderson]

VectorWorks Architect has, as you are probably aware, "Window" and "Door" objects, which are more suited to items that penetrate a wall. These are what we call "hybrid" objects, i.e. they contain all the 3D info as well as specific 2D info relative to the item. Examples of 2D info might be, for example, a description of how wall cavities wrap at the door or window intersection of the wall.

In addition to these objects, there is both a straight and a curved window wall object, also hybrid objects, which are more suitable to "stick-built" full-height glazing systems. These do in fact allow various offsets of glass to the frame and are generalizable enough to cover most Kawneer configurations. In fact, we have a "Storefronts and Window Walls" library file that pre-cofigures the Kawneer 1600, 1600D, 400, 450, 451, and E9454 systems.

Creating new custom objects in VectorWorks does require learning our scripting language, VectorScript (VS). VS is similar to Pascal in syntax. However, the practicality of learning VS is enhanced by the ability to export a file as VS. So you can just draw your object, export it as VS, and (once you have learned some of the custom-object specifics) turn it into a parametric custom object. Things such as wall insertion options are handled automatically.

I hope this information is helpful to you.

[stephanie]

Mr. Anderson,

that was quick! thank you. your explanation, however, raises some additional newbie questions they may be dumb because i don't really have the vw reflexes, please understand.

since the door/window objects are designed to go on the wall object, do i get to control

a) the type of door/window frame

b) butt/wraparound conditions on both sides

c) rough, stud, or drywall openning in relation to the nominal width of the door (particularly in the case of cold formed steel frame)

additionally, since the doors and windows are designed to be inserted into the wall object, can i insert them into a stickframe windowwall? how do i go about creating a storefront swing entrance and insert operable panes (vents) into this curtainwall?

thank you for your patience.

[stephanie]

ps. i forgot to ask,

the kawneer framing system as you mentionned in the VWA catalogue, can they be inserted at mid wall height to create a punched openning or a ribbon window?

thanks.

[ 09-22-2003, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: stephanie ]

[stephanie]

Mr. Anderson,

you seriously skipped lunch over this, i feel bad. so this is what i have heard, VW being a designer centric software. i have just read from the web that VW being the design tool of choice in benelux, a disaster in france, and number one cad in japan... is there a who's who list somewehere for the topgun VWA users?

By "rigid"... could you please elaborate on that? since i am in the process of selecting a BIM, and there is not many realistic BIMs on the market, i would sincerely appreciate any direct comparaison, good old american style

thanks!

[Robert Anderson]

For a more complete discussion regarding "rigidity" and workflow, see the White Paper on VectorWorks Architect on our website:

NNA BIM White Paper

[Robert Anderson]

Your questions:

"do i get to control the type of door/window frame"

The door/window are really more oriented towards wood or wood-clad frames than extruded or HM frames, particularly at a detail level. You can get the dimensions right, though. Surprisingly, we have not had a lot of requests for HM type frames.

"do i get to control butt/wraparound conditions on both sides"

You get to control wraparound and butting of wall material layers on both inside and outside.

"do I get to control rough, stud, or drywall openning in relation to the nominal width of the door (particularly in the case of cold formed steel frame)"

You can control the shim gap for your window or door.

"since the doors and windows are designed to be inserted into the wall object, can i insert them into a stickframe windowwall? how do i go about creating a storefront swing entrance and insert operable panes (vents) into this curtainwall?"

Doors and windows in windowwalls are not inserted as in standard walls; they can be built up as individual symbols or objects.

"can [window walls] be inserted at mid wall height to create a punched openning or a ribbon window?"

Yes.

[stephanie]

Mr. Anderson,

thank you so much. i am sorry to take up your lunch hour time. it was very helpful. for now, am i correct to suppose that the current iteration of VWA is mostly for american wooden vernacular construction? please prove me wrong. i see some fairly complexe commercial/institutional project on nemetschek america's gallery, this leaves me very optimistic of VWA's capabilities. where did they get their "non wood" window/door objects? do they make their own? or are there out there to downlaod or be purchased?

thanks

[Robert Anderson]

VWA is not limited to stick-frame residential construction. Some of the commerical windows were built from scratch as hybrid symbols (which also insert in walls), no doubt, some were the window-wall objects. There are slso some third-party add-ons for window and door construction.

I think the thing to taks away from this is that, unlike some more rigid object-oriented CAD programs, you can create anything in VectorWorks, and your project can be a combination of custom objects, symbols, and plain geometry. This is why VW and VWA are considered to be "designer-oriented" packages.

[jmartinarch]

Just where is this storefront tool hidden?

[rDesign]

Just where is this storefront tool hidden?

This is a really old thread, as of Vw2015 to create storefront (called Curtain Wall in Vw), you use the Wall tool:

Creating a Curtain Wall : Vw2016 Architect : Getting Started Guide

[cberg]

The curtainwall tool really isn't an adequate solution for storefront. This has been discussed in other threads, but I somehow doubt making any improvements to this tool is much of a priority in VW's development cycle. Cool flashy things that gain attention/market share seem to be more desirable from a development perspective. Just an observation. It is what it is....

https://techboard.vectorworks.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=212817

https://techboard.vectorworks.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=225963

Through some very complicated workarounds you can get the the curtainwall to behave like storefront.

Zoomer and Wes G recommend making everything symbols and then inserting into walls. I have found this creates challenges in positioning the symbols exactly where you want them. I may not have their level of expertise with these tools.

I have had some success with creating fake windows that act like openings and then placing walls within walls. Others have noted that this is bad BIM practice, but we are left with little choice but to do this. Corner window options can be your friend achieving results. I am not sure how this impacts the Energy Modeling, for example.

As a FYI, there is a legacy window wall tool that can do some of this. This tool is super basic, but it acts like an insertable cartoon storefront object with semi-controllable mullions.

Hopefully someone will heed some of these requests in some future version of the program. As it stands now, Moving curtainwall mullions is painful. The butt-glazed options are kind of weird. Mullions randomly insert when you make global sorts of curtainwall adjustments. Wall insertion a downright royal pain. But there is some progress I guess.

Good luck!