Window sills...

[LeeElston]

Really struggling understanding what the different settings in the window sill tool are doing... The sill seems to be being put flush with the inside face of the wall whilst the frame is in centred on the inner face of the outer leaf. The little sketch with the reference no's doesn't help as it shows a very thin single skin wall and the frame flush with the inner face which is not a standard arrangement. It also seems to add the cill under the opening created for the window so it appears within the wall structure... I have looked at the tutorials on the university but nothing seems to go into this in detail, and the description in help is minimal... Any hints or pointers to a good guide would be appreciated as trial and error is getting me nowhere...I've added a few screenshots so you can see issue..

[sak1850]

The window sill insertion in Vectorworks is broken and has never worked properly, there have been complaints about this going back many many years and we still do not have an indication of when it may be fixed.

Put simply you cannot use sills when inserting windows unless you do not mind a totally inaccurate rendering of what you may have intended.

We still await a timeline from Vectorworks as to when this problem will be addressed, but most of us have given up on holding our breath. 

[Tom W.]

@LeeElston the window tool is a nightmare. You're correct the sill depth (4) is measured from the inside face of the wall + there's nothing you can do to move the back of the sill away from the wall. So if your wall is 300 thk + you want the sill to project beyond the external face of the wall by 40 you need to enter 340 for the sill depth. I set the Height (3) to something like 60 + the Sill Lip (1) to 40 + then the Keep (2) value is what determines where the slope on the top surface of the sill starts - and this relates to where you are positioning your window within the thickness of the wall: how far the front of your jamb is from the inside face of the wall.

 

I enter something like 40 for the Extension (5) + don't bother entering anything for Stool Lip (6) or Stool Nose (7) as this just gives you a really crude internal window board planted on the face of the wall: you're better modelling something separately if you want a window board.

 

In terms of the window's position in the wall it comes in centrally by default + you need to use the 'Plan Wall Offset' setting to move it in + out.

So you can with extreme fiddling get a semi-ok looking window + sill but what really amazes me is the lack of options for wrapping the wall components around the reveals/head/sill. See screenshots. You can get the window looking ok in 3D by modelling your own reveals:

The LH window has a 1mm thk extrude along path lining. The RH one is the same window with nothing added. You can see the green sill.

Again the RH window has an extrude around it, the LH one nothing.

 

You can get it looking ok in Top/Plan by wrapping the components in the 'Exterior' + 'Interior Wall Detail' sections ('Number of Components'). But you need to put the manually-drawn reveals in their own class + turn them off as you don't want to see them in 2D.

But in vertical section you've had it:

I am quite new to 3D so maybe I've missed something. To me, an accurate vertical section through a window is a fairly crucial piece of architectural information but if you want one in VW you need to draw a separate detail by hand as the model won't give it to you. 

Be keen to hear from more experienced people

[LeeElston]

Thanks for that Tom.. Likewise new to tackling 3d seriously and agree with comment about dealing with reveals... 

 

[LeeElston]

Maybe its a US/UK thing? The standard tool seems to assume a timber frame construction which is basically a single thickness of  core wall with minimal additional components either side,  whilst our external wall constructions tend to have more and thicker components with the core being a smaller part of the overall build up...

 

[Tom W.]

I'm not sure. I'm relatively happy with how the tool deals with the number + nature of components in a wall. The component wrapping works quite well in 2D: you can pick how many components inside + out you want affected + manipulate them in Top/Plan with blue handle to get them where you want them. And you can position the window wherever you want it within the thickness of the wall. The issue for me like I say is the complete lack of options in 3D + sections. The window tool I find quite useful for quickly adding windows to basic as-existing drawings where I've got a solid (single-component) wall + I just want something the right size + position + indicative of how it looks rather than an exact representation (so I won't bother showing sills). When it comes to an actual window that I want to represent 100% accurately I came to the conclusion that given the amount of work involved + the shortcomings regarding reveals, sill, etc I was better to model my own window from scratch + save it as a symbol than try + do it with the window tool. Then I could incorporate sill + reveals into the symbol + use wall hole component to clip the wall as necessary. But then obviously each symbol would be specific to a particular wall style so they'd be one-offs but at least they'd be correct + look right in all views + in section. I have a couple of projects coming up where I will try this but not done it so far so somewhat theoretical at moment

[DBrown]

22 hours ago, sak1850 said:

The window sill insertion in Vectorworks is broken and has never worked properly, there have been complaints about this going back many many years and we still do not have an indication of when it may be fixed.

Put simply you cannot use sills when inserting windows unless you do not mind a totally inaccurate rendering of what you may have intended.

We still await a timeline from Vectorworks as to when this problem will be addressed, but most of us have given up on holding our breath. 

Sadly true... the window tool in the english version is terrible,

 

[thinkingpencil]

I concluded the sill function in windows tool works only for single skin timber framed construction. So for what I understand as a traditional north american construction method. I use a sill symbol nested within a symbol which has all the other components needed. Meaning a drylining on the inside, sometimes a rendered or stone reveal on the outside, cill board etc. So the window is in-wall. And the "components" symbol makes its own wall-hole, using an object tailored to the components.

[sak1850]

As I have said in several other posts, there are many workarounds and many of them are really ingenious, BUT we should be able to rely on the main program to give us consistent results, every time we post that we can get over something it lets the developers off the hook just a little bit more, it should be possible for them to fix this issue and save the hours of work we have to put in to make good on the problem with the software. 

[thinkingpencil]

Agreed...see this in wish list:-