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Site model object: section disaster

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I've attached a file (VW2018) which contains a site model object, with a few site modifiers applying to it. In plan and OpenGL 3d view all is fine, but when I take a section through it (see the section viewport on the sheet layer) It's a complete mess, with multiple section lines all over the place.

 

The problems with this started out with it refusing to show fill in certain sections. Then, it refused to show fill in any sections. Now this.

 

What has gone wrong and how do I fix it?

 

1294665364_ScreenShot2019-11-06at10_17_18.thumb.jpg.ed6a54e683be20927115d0392b66d451.jpg1780998771_ScreenShot2019-11-06at10_16_09.thumb.jpg.c137a90da170918b9e4300c59fd4f726.jpg

sitemodel.vwx

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@line-weightHi not sure if this is what you were after. Section style class was not use at creation, they all need to be to show fills.

The site modifiers were not on the site modifer DTM class, without them being on this class they have no effect on the site model. You also need to have the model and modifiers applying to the proposed model and not the existing.

HTH

Capture.JPG

Capture_01.JPG

sitemodel_v2020_v2018.vwx

Edited by Alan Woodwell

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34 minutes ago, Alan Woodwell said:

@line-weightHi not sure if this is what you were after. Section style class was not use at creation, they all need to be to show fills.

The site modifiers were not on the site modifer DTM class, without them being on this class they have no effect on the site model. You also need to have the model and modifiers applying to the proposed model and not the existing.

HTH

 

 

sitemodel_v2020_v2018.vwx

 

Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately:

 

- Changing section style class to use at creation has no effect on my file

- Changing site modifiers to be on site modifier DTM class has no effect on my file

- Changing the model and modifiers to "proposed" rather than existing has no effect on my file.

 

When I open your file, initially it looks like your screenshot, however the modifiers are 'pads' rather than 'spoil piles' as in my original file.

 

When I change them to 'spoil piles' as they should be, the section reverts to the same mess that it was to start with.

 

It looks like you have imported into VW2020 then converted back to VW2018. Are you able to generate a correct section if you open and edit it in 2018?

 

 

 

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@line-weight Hi i did notice that your lowest rl was a minus, put it to zero. put site modifiers on the DTM class and made section use at creation and i get this.

HTH

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Capture-01.JPG

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It's not at a minus number in my file - it is at zero.

 

Not sure why you have 3d display set to "cut and fill"?

 

But you can see the section is still a mess in any case.

 

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It's the site modifiers that are causing the problem. If I delete them all, everything is fine. If I change them from 'spoil pile' to 'grade limits' everything is fine.

 

There's something weird going on with them - if I look at the site model side-on, the site modifier objects are not 'flat' 2d objects; they seem to jump around in 3d space and this I think is somehow related to the mess-up in the section. I don't know how to change that though - other than by attempting to redraw them all.

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Here's what one of the site modifiers looks like when I select "show 3d".

 

Half of it sits on the surface of the model, and half of it seems to be at zero elevation. I don't understand how it's ended up like this. I don't know if it matters, but I suspect it does and is linked to the problems. I don't know if there's any way of fixing it other than tracing over it with a new modifier, and then deleting it.

 

The effect of this modifier is as it should be, when I look at the model in OpenGL. It's in the section viewport that something goes wrong.

 

331806855_ScreenShot2019-11-07at09_35_22.thumb.jpg.280a980ddda3354469a2a269f9571333.jpg

 

 

*edit:

OK, so I think I have fixed it like this:

(1) Select the troublesome site modifier in top/plan view

(2) Convert to Group (it will now be a 2d polygon)

(3) In the polygon OIP change from "screen" to "layer" plane

(4) Adjust one of the vertices of the polygon slightly

(5) Select the polygon and use "create objects from shapes" command to make it back into a site modifier

(6) Now it seems to be fixed.

 

Step (4) seems to be sometimes necessary and sometimes not.

 

I think there may be some kind of bug involved in the "create objects from shapes" command.

 

In the future I will try and stick to making site modifiers directly from the site modifier tool I think.

 

Or maybe the bug comes when you edit an existing site modifier? Who knows. Doesn't look like anyone at VW is interested in finding out, anyway.

Edited by line-weight

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By the way some other things I realised:

 

- Some of the errant cut lines in the section seemed to be caused by having "show 3d" ticked for the site modifier. The section would show a cut line through the modifier itself as well as the site model. This causes issues wherever the "show 3d" object is somehow displaced from the surface of the model (and I don't understand why sometimes they are and sometimes aren't)

- Further errant lines were caused by the original polygons I'd converted to modifiers. Unless you tick the "delete source" box when you convert to site modifier, the polygon still exists, and seems (sometimes?) to show up in the section.

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Not sure exactly what you are trying to achieve. If you are trying to use cut and fill (Spoil) you need to see http://app-help.vectorworks.net/2020/eng/index.htm#t=VW2020_Guide%2FSiteModel1%2FCreating_a_spoil_pile_area.htm&rhsearch=spoil pile&rhhlterm=spoil pile&rhsyns=

In the VW help file and you balance the cut with a spoil pile so no dirt has to be taken off site. You draw a pad for the cut then you use a spoil pile for the dirt to go to then you balance the cut and fill calculations. see attached.

Capture.JPG

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@Alan Woodwell I am not using it for cut & fill calculations in this instance.

 

I am simply using the spoil pile modifier to create areas that are slightly higher than the underlying terrain. In this case, they are 100mm higher, and represent areas of paving with a 100mm kerb around them. This is the only modifier that will raise the site model surface parallel to the underlying terrain, rather than creating a raised area with a flat surface.

 

Maybe you have been confused by my OP where I talk about problems showing 'fill' in sections. To clarify, when I'm talking about 'fill', I'm not talking about cut and fill.

 

I was talking about the solid red fill style that is applied to the cut plane in a section viewport. It was missing in my section viewport - in other words the site model was showing as 'hollow' rather than solid red where it was cut.

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6 hours ago, line-weight said:

*edit:

OK, so I think I have fixed it like this:

(1) Select the troublesome site modifier in top/plan view

(2) Convert to Group (it will now be a 2d polygon)

(3) In the polygon OIP change from "screen" to "layer" plane

(4) Adjust one of the vertices of the polygon slightly

(5) Select the polygon and use "create objects from shapes" command to make it back into a site modifier

(6) Now it seems to be fixed.

 

 

 

^^ well, I thought I had it, but trying to apply this to a more complex model with the same problem has failed.

 

The only way I can get things to reliably behave is to remove all of the "spoil pile" site modifiers. They clearly corrupt the DTM somehow.

 

So, giving up on this for now. Another few hours of my life wasted. Thanks Vectorworks.

 

 

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