stairs & walls

[digitalcarbon]

if anyone want to see the vw file that made this then send me a private message and i can send you a dropbox link. (i cannot do it for everyone and i am busy but i will try)

the purpose of this is to show what it took to model IF one wants to model with this level of detail.. not sure how one would get interior elevations/sections otherwise.. except for 2d protection drawings which i have done in the past. i would rather model 3d (and suffer with the work arounds) than go back to 2d projection drawings (and suffer the nagging thought "does this really work or is it just a pretty picture)

file is 24mb and i purged everything

vw2013

[VincentCuclair]

@Mike: that stair and rail doesn't look too complicated can't it be done with the stair tool? (I'm assuming you did it with 3D geometry which you've proven to be very accomplished in, previously )

@Chris: perhaps Mikes clients don't need convincing and didn't order the Formwork->Reo->Concrete Pour ->analyze part ?!

Edited January 15, 2014 by Vincent C

[Christiaan]

@Chris: perhaps Mikes clients don't need convincing and didn't order the Formwork->Reo->Concrete Pour ->analyze part ?!

Exactly. Know your audience.

[VincentCuclair]

Perhaps the project is never going to make it past sketched in VWs and Designed and Built in Revit/Autocad....

What motivates you to come to that conclusion?

[VincentCuclair]

......Of course you wouldn't know that unless you did the reo and formwork...or should everyone just go after the client for extra$!

So you charge the client for work other 'specialists' do for free?:

http://www.bison.co.uk

http://www.precast.com.au/Products/Structural.aspx

http://www.charconcs.com/stairs

Edited January 15, 2014 by Vincent C

[VincentCuclair]

Perhaps the project is never going to make it past sketched in VWs and Designed and Built in Revit/Autocad....Which incidentally has never happened to me, Its all one or the other...

I've never heard of this happening to a colleague or experienced this personally in my whole (27 year) carrier using all CAD software available and working for among others my own 1 man company and for one of Europes' largest building consultancy companies (+3500 consultants)......again why?

Edited January 15, 2014 by Vincent C

[Christiaan]

So is the precast yard going to pour the monolithic concrete on site in situ for free?

Stop being obtuse. They're going to use their specialist expertise to provide their system based on the design parameters and constraints provided.

[digitalcarbon]

this is what i find hard with stairs and hence do not use the stair tool

if there is a way that i am overlooking please let me know

http://youtu.be/_cX_EaN8rIY

i tried to delete everything but the stair and upload, but the file was still to big (10mb)

[VincentCuclair]

So is the precast yard going to pour the monolithic concrete on site in situ for free?

Nope but the Formwork->Reo->Concrete Pour ->analyze is part of the final price which often is lower than if another consultant (like yourself) does it instead of them.

Very little is poured in situ these days, especially stairs......far to expensive/time consuming and precast production has become so streamlined and flexible they can do most solutions precast offsite.......of course economics are in volume but that is another issue.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Vincent C

[VincentCuclair]

this is what i find hard with stairs and hence do not use the stair tool

http://youtu.be/_cX_EaN8rIY

Understood and agreed, NV are you paying attention!

[VincentCuclair]

So is the precast yard going to pour the monolithic concrete on site in situ for free?

Stop being obtuse. They're going to use their specialist expertise to provide their system based on the design parameters and constraints provided.

Using their own specialized CAD software......

You seem to find it important to sell your competence in CAD and data analyzing to your clients as a means for them to lower their costs but do you show these discussions to your clients Chris as a means to lower their costs even more or....perhaps not?

Edited January 15, 2014 by Vincent C

[Christiaan]

this is what i find hard with stairs and hence do not use the stair tool

http://youtu.be/_cX_EaN8rIY

I think the clue is in your last sentence. We need parametric tools that we can also model directly.

[Dieter @ DWorks]

For what it's worth, you can draw the stair without the railing and use the railing tool instead, I do it almost all the time, and it works perfect. Keep in mind that your drawings are just a representation of the real thing, so as long as all parties understand what it is and how it needs to be build, it's ok.

[Christiaan]

For what it's worth, you can draw the stair without the railing and use the railing tool instead, I do it almost all the time, and it works perfect. Keep in mind that your drawings are just a representation of the real thing, so as long as all parties understand what it is and how it needs to be build, it's ok.

That's becoming less and less the case though. As we move into 3D model exchange inaccuracies in the model become more of a problem. I don't mind simplified modelling. What I have a problem with is inaccurate modelling.

[digitalcarbon]

i agree, drawings use to be approximations controlled by dimensions and 3" details.

now the model has to be correct with no fudginess

it seems that this has never left us

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_in,_garbage_out

[Dieter @ DWorks]

For what it's worth, you can draw the stair without the railing and use the railing tool instead, I do it almost all the time, and it works perfect. Keep in mind that your drawings are just a representation of the real thing, so as long as all parties understand what it is and how it needs to be build, it's ok.

That's becoming less and less the case though. As we move into 3D model exchange inaccuracies in the model become more of a problem. I don't mind simplified modelling. What I have a problem with is inaccurate modelling.

I never said it can be inaccurate. What I mean is that it doesn't always have to be detailed.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Dieter @ DWorks

[digitalcarbon]

ok understood

[mac@stairworks]

Getting back to the original subject, if you were to model that stair in 3D it would look somewhat different then the elevation because upper and lower rake rails would not intersect at the same post. The rails would have to be offset by a rail fitting or another post would have to be added so there would be 2 at each landing otherwise the rails would go through the edge of the stair treads.

Edited January 28, 2014 by mac@stairworks

[digitalcarbon]

i do not understand i did model it all in 3d

http://youtu.be/_cX_EaN8rIY