clinton on site Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 (edited) I've been poking around on the VW site for a while now with no luck so I thought I'd just ask. Are there guidelines as to using VW ( we are all Mac's and using V12) on a network? Can files be opened across the network as opposed to moving them from the server to a local drive to be worked on? Additionally, is there a server hardware recommendation as to speed, processors, etc? Thanks very much. Clinton Edited April 27, 2007 by clinton on site Quote Link to comment
matto Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Ok based on couple of offices i've worked in. It's ok to work across the network (almost required if you are using workgroup references), a few things to keep in mind. Don't leaves files open overnight as most backup systems will either just skip the files and can cause ocassional file corruption. Hardware side, i've seen offices up to 40people running on old G4 towers it's not really processor speed thats an issue even these machine rarely got over 20%, fast drives (and try and keep them with lots of free space) and lots of memory seem to be the bigger issues for the server. good network connections also much needed, use switches not just hubs. You should look at power supply as well, having battery backup power on the server and switches will stop any network drop outs due to rough power. That should get the ball rolling, i'm sure others will add more. Quote Link to comment
Christiaan Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 We work directly off our server mostly, even with very large files. We use Apple Remote Desktop to synchronise Templates and Library resources on all machines rather than trying to keep them on the server however, as this can be problematic. My foremost recommendation would be to install a gigabit ethernet network. Go for Cat 6 cabling (or 6A if it's available and cheap enough, which will support 10 gigabit ethernet). In terms of a Switch, we use a Netgear 48 Port Gigabit Smart Switch GS748T, because it was cheap and offers us more than enough ports. It works well so far. It's noisy though, and I'm guessing most gigabit switches are, so bare that in mind when locating it. Currently our server is a Dual 2.3 GHz G5 with 8GB RAM, which runs superbly. You might also consider configuring your server (if you use a recent machine) to use a 2GB connection, by running cable from both ethernet ports to your Switch. This helps when you've got multiple machines writing to the server at once. Quote Link to comment
H. H. Furr Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I am the Principal of a small Arch. firm we work our project files off a firewire connected hardrive over a 10 port 10/100 network and don't have a speed problem. We do have a problem with not synchronizing our defaults, hatches, templates, door hardware sets, room finishes, resources. I see Chrstiaan office has it licked with Apple Remote Desktop but I have never used it and I would appreciate some input on how to set this up or a central server solution (what was the problem there?) or something else. The simpler the better. Quote Link to comment
Christiaan Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Are you exclusively on Macs Furr? Quote Link to comment
H. H. Furr Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Yes. 2 imacs (G5 and intel) 2 Dual G4 867 VW 12.5.2 Mac OS 10.4.10 I'll add some info to my posting signature. Quote Link to comment
wezelboy Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 If you have a mac office, knowing a little bit about the UNIX can be extremely powerful. You can do a lot of cool synchronization with cron and rsync, and it's free. Quote Link to comment
H. H. Furr Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I don't know any UNIX. I think I looked at one of these at some point in time trying do something else but I could only firgure out how to ovewrite everything to be the same. I want my staff to be able to contribute to the master symbol library, custom room finishes, custom door hardware, notes library ect. I am not actually sure what all files would need to be shared to do this. How have other small offices done it? Quote Link to comment
Christiaan Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Forget Unix, you don't need to know any of that. You can set up any Mac OS X machine to be a server but I would recommend getting a copy of Mac OS X Server as it will allow you to scale much easier. My advice would be to wait until Apple releases their latest update to Mac OS X Server in October. They've been doing a lot of work on the usability side of things to make it easier for small businesses like yours, without a dedicated IT person. See more here: http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/leopard/ http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/leopard/simplesetup.html You'll need some hardware too, obviously: 1) A switch (e.g. a 24 port smart switch from Netgear), this provides the connection between the server and your computers, printers and internet connection box. 2) A server, probably an intel-based Mac Pro. Doesn't need to be top of the line with the amount of machines you'll be connecting but you'll be able to use it as a desktop machine down the line if you need to. Quote Link to comment
H. H. Furr Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 O.K. this sounds better. I read the links and it sounds good. Here is my current setup: (maybe not the best but it it works for us right now) 8 port Asante 100Mbs switch ? The uplink port used by the DSL to share the internet connection ? Sharp AR-M208-N copier/laser printer on another port ? 4- Macs (2-Dual Processor 867MHz G4, imac G5 & iMac 2GHz intel)on the other ports 1-of the Dual Processor G4 has a 450 GB firewire drive attatched along with USB connected HP 110 plotter and HP 5550 injet which are shared. We all log on to this machine and mount the firewire drive and work off of it. The firewire drive is backed up everynight to my machine. I know the backup setup seems little backwards but being in a hurricane prone area (Katrina) I wanted to be able to grab the firewire drive and know I had the very latest work on it. We keep a few resource library files on the firewire drive but some times they will disappear and will have to be added back as a favorites. Do you have the same problem if it is running from a true server? We use Now up to Date & Contact with its little server program to co-ordinate our schedules & contacts. I have never dealt with a dedicated server. So these are my other questions: What can I do with a dedicated server that I am not now doing concerning VW? Could I use 1 of the Dual Processor G4's w/ 2GB ram as the server? Quote Link to comment
PeterT Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 H.H., We network 8 Macs, including a G5, a few Dual G4s and an Intel Core 2 Duo Imac all to a 466 MHz G4 with only 896 MB of ram, running OS X Server. We notice no performance problems or slowdowns. The server does not have to be a powerful machine for a small office, as long as it has a fast drive. A file server is not doing the crunching typically, it is mainly reading and writing to the drive. We put our mail server on a separate IMac running a dedicated mail application. We do run FileMaker server on the OS X Server, but with only eight clients, it puts no stress on the server. We have an HP Procurve 24 port 10/100 switch, but are wired with Cat 5 cable. We do not find the ethernet network to be a bottleneck, but certainly, if I were wiring or rewiring the office today, I would install Cat 6 cable. Don't get me wrong, bigger, faster, more ram is always better, but if you are buying a new machine, I would put the money into a workstation. What you propose for the server is more than adequate. You might want a switch with a few more ports though. Once you start adding printers, a backup server, Mail server, etc. you will gobble up 8 ports fast. Although we only have 8 workstations, we are already using 16 ports on our switch. Quote Link to comment
H. H. Furr Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 (edited) Peter, I am glad to hear about the machine you are using as a server; because I would rather upgrade a workstation like you mentioned. Also you called it, about the size of our switch we are maxed out right now so I think something with more ports is in order. I am still wondering besides the Resource library what other VW files should I put on a server or have synchronized? Edited August 2, 2007 by H. H. Furr Quote Link to comment
PeterT Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 We keep all our templates ( Stationary Pads) on the server, but things like workspaces and plugins all load when the application launches, so we keep them on the local drives. If you were to put these on the server and keep an alias to the server on the local machine in the correct location, it might work, but then you would always have to mount the server to the local machine before launching VectorWorks, and aliases of some types of files may not work. We have fooled around with this to some degree, but in the end, we are only keeping Vectorworks drawing files themselves (.mcd, .sta) on the server. Quote Link to comment
H. H. Furr Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Peter, Thanks for the info. Has anyone else fooled around with the alias thing? Or some other method? Quote Link to comment
Christiaan Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 The reason I suggested an Intel machine is because Mac OS X Server 10.5 (Leopard) will probably be optimised quite aggressively for Intel-based machines. You may find you won't get the most out of Mac OS X Server 10.5 if you run it on a G4. Alias' are also not a good way to go in my opinion. I tried it myself but ran into problems because a server is not always available. So, for instance, if you have anyone coming in with a laptop they lose any aliased resources when they leave the office. Or, say, if the server goes down for any reason, everyone loses their resources. The solution I've settled on, which is very robust, is to use Apple Remote Desktop to synchronise my machine (the 'master') with everybody elses. Quote Link to comment
H. H. Furr Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Christiaan, What files do you sync? Is it just Resource Browser stuff or do you do default hatches,symbols, etc.? This is actually an open question to anyone in the forum. I would like to know more about what has already been tried or is working for them. Quote Link to comment
islandmon Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 With Servers avoid "alias" for reasons mention and use symbolic links instead: NAME symlink -- make symbolic link to a file SYNOPSIS #include <;unistd.h> int symlink(const char *name1, const char *name2); DESCRIPTION A symbolic link name2 is created to name1 (name2 is the name of the file created, name1 is the string used in creating the symbolic link). Either name may be an arbitrary path name; the files need not be on the same file system. Quote Link to comment
Christiaan Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 What files do you sync? VectorWorks>Templates (which includes a template that holds most of our resources) VectorWorks>Libraries>Defaults>Walls>Wall Styles Metric.mcd VectorWorks>Libraries>Defaults>Attributes - Hatches>Hatches_Default.mcd And Library>Application Support>VectorWorks>12>Plug-ins>Toggle Guides.vsm Library>Application Support>VectorWorks>12>Plug-ins>Toggle Objects in Group.vsm Library>Application Support>VectorWorks>12>Plug-ins>Toggle Viewport Crop.vsm Library>Application Support>VectorWorks>12>Plug-ins>Toggle Zoom Line Thickness.vsm Which I add to both the document and object contextual menus. Quote Link to comment
wezelboy Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 With Servers avoid "alias" for reasons mention and use symbolic links instead: NAME symlink -- make symbolic link to a file SYNOPSIS #include <;unistd.h> int symlink(const char *name1, const char *name2); DESCRIPTION A symbolic link name2 is created to name1 (name2 is the name of the file created, name1 is the string used in creating the symbolic link). Either name may be an arbitrary path name; the files need not be on the same file system. This is a function call from a man 2 page. The appropriate terminal command for a symlink is ln -s Quote Link to comment
islandmon Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 This is a function call from a man 2 page Only the a brief man page definition was provided to avoid getting into the exact command line syntax, path & permission issues involved. Quote Link to comment
wezelboy Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 symlink will only help you if you are writing code. It won't work from the command line. Quote Link to comment
H. H. Furr Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 (edited) Christiaan, Thank you for your clear and succinct answer. I like your idea of adding the toggles to the contextual menu. So, how do you do it? wezelboy & islandmon, Wow. You da "man" and I guess one of you is da "man 2" Seriously, I do appreciate the help but I don't know what type of device I am supposed to type this alien language nor what War Games I might accidently start if I did. I apologize for my ignorance. Please, tell me more about what VW files you coordinate, merge or sync? I do really want to know about Best Practices for setting up VW on a smallish network for Construction Document production. The main thing I am trying to do right now is to make it so that when one person creates new Door Hardware Sets or Room Finishes it shows up when the next person goes to edit or make corrections on their machine. I'll tell you this its harder than you think. I have not got it working yet. Edited August 7, 2007 by H. H. Furr Quote Link to comment
Christiaan Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 I think this is probably what you're after Furr: http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=64934 Unfortunately it's just a wish at the moment, so doesn't exist. Quote Link to comment
wezelboy Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Christiaan, Thank you for your clear and succinct answer. I like your idea of adding the toggles to the contextual menu. So, how do you do it? wezelboy & islandmon, Wow. You da "man" and I guess one of you is da "man 2" Seriously, I do appreciate the help but I don't know what type of device I am supposed to type this alien language nor what War Games I might accidently start if I did. I apologize for my ignorance. Please, tell me more about what VW files you coordinate, merge or sync? I do really want to know about Best Practices for setting up VW on a smallish network for Construction Document production. The main thing I am trying to do right now is to make it so that when one person creates new Door Hardware Sets or Room Finishes it shows up when the next person goes to edit or make corrections on their machine. I'll tell you this its harder than you think. I have not got it working yet. I'm pretty sure this can be done by having a copy of your (Vectorworks Folder)/Plug-Ins/VW_Arch/Data/Prefs_Def folder on your server. You can either replace your local copies of this folder with an alias or symbolic link, or you can use some kind of synchronization method between the local and server copies. The advantage of the former method is that it is easy and automatic. The main disadvantage is that you might not be able to use VW if your server goes down. A synchronization method can be done any number of ways, and that is where UNIX becomes very handy (cron and rsync being the main tools for this kind of thing). Synchronizing folders will allow VW to still function even if the server is not functioning. I don' Quote Link to comment
H. H. Furr Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Thanks for the ideas. The alias thing seems as though it should work but VW comes up with an error. I'm not sure what a sybolic link is or I would try it. Quote Link to comment
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