VectorWorks instead of CA? (detailed reasons)

[Robb]

I am currently using Chief Architect (CA) and find it powerful and easy to use. AND VERY FRUSTRATING. Frustrating enough to consider returning it. My frustration is not related to CAD compelxity or learning curve but to what I consider basic flaws. I hope there may be others using VW who can share with me their experience rgearding the following.

If VectorWorks had a demo I could probably answer all these using the demo but alas a demo seems a tad hard to come by. I am considering the full VW package with all components.

My main problems with CA are:

1. Advanced use of walls do not work well. They tend to snap about on there own and merge in ways I do not want. This is a historical problem with CA (see their forum) and recently seems to be getting attention from them but I do not care to wait too long for a solution.

** Does VW handle the basics of walls properly? In other words does not go snapping/merging walls unless I want them to.

2. Rendering is hard to get even close to realistic unless you understand raytracing (I do) and PovRay (I do) and even then it is a huge effort to get realistic scenes..

** Is the Renderman interface in VW easy to use to get acceptible results (not perfect mind you)? My experiment has been a 2 room house with a single door connecting the two rooms. One room as a standard glass slider. The sun is at 45 degress and 15 degress relative to the slider. The sky is clear. Does the room light realistly (radiosity?) and is there light cast into the 2nd room though the doorway. Ideally the use of extra lights and other tricks woudl not be needed as this defeats the general goal of using VW to model lighting for a design. This question got a tad complex, sorry...

3. Adding dimension lines to elevations requires a seperating of the view. In other words when an element changes I have to manually adjust the elevation view's manually added dimensions.

5. Creating 3D models is a bit difficult and tedious. But CA is not really a modeling program. I accepted that I could use tricks to accomplish my goals. I suspect VW, with its modeler, can easly model any thing I need for a residential home drawing.

CA does many things very well, simple walls and multiple story homes are a snap. Cabinets are flexible, easy and fast. Windows and doors, furnature, wall covers, all are easy and flexible. Framing is done well enough and roofing is quite flexible. There are premade materials for many manufactuers as well as 1000's of 3D models making it much faster to get up and running. But the wall problem is killing me!

Any general comments on how useful this program is for a relative beginner would be good to know. I have CA full enterprise under a 90 day trial.

Thanks for taking the time to read this post.

Robb

PS: I really must get my spell checker working with FireFox again!

[islandmon]

VW addresses all these issues and many more with elegance, simplicity and ease of use. The integrated 2d/3d environment and hybrid symbols makes working in 3d a real joy. The Wall Procedures are exemplary. And, best of all VW is a work in progress constantly evolving based on feed back from an eclectic and diverse community of both casual & Professional Users.

Ditch CA and come join in the fun !

[Robb]

WOW!, you obviously like the program and I appreciate you taking the time to respond. How easy is it to use for a "designer" / remodeler. I will be doing the CAD (I have lots of 3D, 20+ years on/off, experience but little offical CAD) and my father (general contractor) will be doing the enginering and proofing. He is just not that much of a computer person and I am not that knowledgable about code. Combined we suspect we can do the simple plans for permits much faster than his current pencil/paper method. So far CA does justify our logic, its just that it is frustrating me. 3D images for proofs by clients or to resolve the "and what would orange trim look like?" questions are also desired.

I have used IMSI's FloorPlan for design work (great for visulization, not appropiate for working drawings) and am now evaluating CA. Prior to this I use AimationMaster for 3D spline work, PovRay for rendering fun and a few odd and end programs.

I am also feeling out the VectorWorks community. Being involved with OpenSource software development I have come to learn the power a good community can lend to a project. I must admit that CA has a very powerful, robust and helpful community.

Thanks again for the response

[panthony]

Robb,

I have worked with some of the most powerfull CAD systems on the market. VW has, by far, been able to keep me as a customer because of their drawing capability along with the functionality of the modeling. I am able to produce quality drawings and at the same time build a model that gives me complete confidence in it's build-a-bility. Not to mention the fact that I can pick a point anywhere on the drawing platform an find a point. VW is a true draftsmans system.

PA

[Robb]

Chris, perhaps you would be willing to share your experiences with CA wth me even privatly. I harbor no ill will towards them, their product is very cool and easy to use in most cases. All products have limitations (ex: what do you mean VW requires I cut a hole in a cabinet to insert sink). I am just trying to find the one that suits my preferences. I could really use some concrete examples of where VW's strengths comapred to CA are.

[mike m oz]

Robb, have a look at the:

- Press Reviews http://www.nemetschek.net/news/reviews.php

- Case Studies http://www.nemetschek.net/news/casestudies.php

[Christiaan]

Robb, I agree with islandmon and panthony, and I would emphasise the community aspect, which, it has to be said, is in no small part attributable to Nemetschek management. I know of no other software company of this size that has key members actively participating on their forum, discussing issues openly with its customers and users.

My only reservation would be Renderworks. In comparison to the program we use?Artlantis?Renderworks is clunky, slow and produces medium quality renders. It's probably clunky (in comparison) because Renderworks is a rendering program shoehorned into a draughting/modelling program, whereas Artlantis is a program focused purely on rendering.

The things Artlantis has going against it are that it can can take a long time to export large models to Artlantis (30 mins for instance, although even then it's usually quicker than it takes Renderworks to render a low-quality image) and that it can be buggy software (including the export plugin).

The other downside is that Nemetschek sees Artlantis as a competitor instead of a partner and don't seem terribly interested in interoperability:

http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubbthrea...age=0#Post60933

All in all though I recommend Artlantis R (or Studio) over Renderworks, depending a little on what you're working on. The fact of the matter is there are some jobs that I simply could not have done without Artlantis (who have a demo version by the way)

See also these discussions (which, by the way, are examples of the willingness of NNA developers to openly discuss their work):

http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubbthrea...60618#Post60654

http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB20&Number=60431

[Robb]

Thanks to everyone for your comments and private messages. I have ordered a copy of VW Designer + Renderworks (Not sure about renderworks...) and will try it under the 90 day guarentee. Should be interesting to see which package I choose based on my own skills, experience and preferences. It sure is nice to have two powerful and afforable (if we strecth that word a little) packages for home design.

[pateley]

Hi all you VW users. I am hoping you can help me. I am new to most of this coming as I do from a science and research background but I enjoy fresh challenges. I am using Sketchup, VWv12 and ArtlantisR. I am OK with the Sketchup2Artlantis export and subsequent rendering but am stuck at the mo with VW2Artlantis. How do I either ungroup, or separately encode the varying entities in VW so that they can be rendered individually in Artlantis? At present I have not sussed this out - all my walls appear identical, floors etc.!!! Any pointers to fix my ignorance would be very much appreciated.

Gerry

San Diego

ggillespie1@san.rr.com

[alanmac]

There are a couple of ways. I use class exporting/importing.

Give all the seperate objects you want to work on seperately in Artlantis a class name. Make them up to suit yourself, using the class dialog. Change the class of each object in its OIP then go to Artlantis export, choose export by class option and it should come in fine as seperate defined objects.

Alan

[pateley]

Thanks to you and Christiaan. At the moment only part of the file is transferring to Artlantis but that is likely due once again to my lack of experience/naivete. I am such a bloody amateur but stubborn too.

[pateley]

Sorted - an intrinsic problem with the original VW file. Thank you to all on this forum.