Pad from Grade Limits

[Benson Shaw]

@aage.langedrag, @Katarina Ollikainen, et al.

 

 Problems with the Create Planar Pad from Grade Limits are discussed in this previous thread:

https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/topic/111998-creating-a-planar-pad-from-grade-limits-but-planar-pads-without-elevation/

 

But it went to wider issues, so starting new here. The big fail is that the command creates a pad at seemingly random elevation, instead of at a z value that would balance the cut/fill inside the Grade Limits.

OK, I even suggested moving the DTM up/down to the pad elevation and recreate pads repeatedly to find balanced cut/fill then move entire assembly back to original z.

Sorta works but fraught. 

 

I find now that a different command controls the pad elevation in the Pad from Grade Limits:

Create Objects from Shapes > Site Modifier > Pad > set the elevation.  Delete that new pad.  Create Pad from Grade Limits will now match that elevation. Perhaps others have discovered this already, but offering here for the brain trust to pick at. Might help with fixing the bug.  Video and file attached.

 

Note: Pad via Objects from Shapes defaults to elevation 0, which explains why many tests of the Pad from Grade Limits creates a pad at z = 0. 

 

-B

Pad from Grade.vwx

[aage.langedrag]

Hi @Benson Shaw,

Thanks for the clarification and good video. What you are showing is that the function does not work. The working method you show is far too imprecise and not least time-consuming. Other software has technical solutions, so I have faith in Vectorworks' programmers to give us functions that work as they should. Until then, I will not use the current solution and I hope the function is removed from the program so that more people do not spend precious time on something that does not work.

[Benson Shaw]

Function definitely does not work!

If Pad from Grade Limits worked as designed it would:

     1. Create uniform grading at designated slope from pad to grade limits. 
     2. Create a level pad shaped by intersection with slope faces.  

     3.  Place that pad at elevation of balanced cut/fill. 
It accomplishes 1 and 2, but completely misses 3. Hence the workaround. 
 

Workaround is time consuming!

True, but other methods to accomplish 1,2,3 would also be time consuming. If working at mm precision for pad elevation, I think fewer than 10 attempts should resolve it . . . 

 

Workaround is imprecise.  mmmm

I think it is as precise as patience allows. Seems the slopes are correct as long as the value is keyed in at each attempt. The pad elevation and therefore Cut/fill balance are limited by construction precision, rather than vwx decimal precision. A millimeter deeper cut or 1deg steeper slope might flip the fill from import to export. Balance point is somewhere between at about 8 decimal points. 
 

Remove from program?

Interesting idea. Or maybe disable it but show grayed out text in the menu with a “We’re working on it” notice? Add a date stamp or count down so we see interval to the fix. 
 

Also, just curious,  @  landscape architects, is this a must have feature? use it on every project? Is there a common method without the command?
 

Did it work in some distant, earlier versions? I have not seen earlier discussions here. 

-B

 

 

[bob cleaver]

In California, civil engineers dominate the grading review process.  Landscape architects can provide 'grading studies' but are not recognized in municipal submittals for grading.  

I like to provide grading studies but never develop balanced cut/fill review - the balance concept is valid but so many geotechnical considerations are required to ascertain how to provide a balanced site (is the cut valid for fill, what are the sub grade needs of paving and structures, drainage requirements such as swales and bioretention basins for retaining site water on site, etc).  The details of balancing a site at a schematic deign level make balancing a challenge -  

[bob cleaver]

Benson I feel like I gave you short shrift with my earlier post.  You always ask great questions and always support others.  In order to use the balance cut and fill appropriately, the rough grading would be for pads and add paving, building, drainage swales, mounding and site sculpting.  Developing a set of tools to use to develop site modifiers would be key to making a landscape architects grading design valuable.  
Benson, thank you for all your efforts on this forum ! 

[Benson Shaw]

@bob cleaver TOTALLY not short shrift, and you are totally welcome. The forum’s a pleasure. I’m learning all the time and giving back when possible. Now, if we could just get this command added to the fix list  . . . 
-B