10.1 ? stairs? viewports?

[jnr]

Katie:

When do you expect to release 10.1? Is it on schedule for January?

Also will the stair tool be upgraded in a mid 10 version release? (It sucks and has for a while)

I also heard that ACAC viewport-like capablility was planned for a mid 10 release, Can you confirm?

(I want my building sections to dynamically update instead of the tedious method of re-cutting them everytime you change the plan)

[Guest]

I don't know when 10.1 will be available nor what it will entail. I find out the same time the rest of the world finds out as last minute changes are always a possibility.

As for Viewports being in a mid-vw 10 version, I can't say. I don't know who you heard this from and until anything is official in writing and issued from our press team, it's not necessarily acredited. I can say viewports is something we have been looking into for some time now.

As for the stair tool, I don't know about that either.

[Guest]

I cannot comment on anything that will be in upcoming versions of VW. Mostly I can't, because I am not privy to that information. Secondly, nothing is final in a version until it's released with a press release. Things can change at the last minute. It's just not something I can or able to comment on at this time.

When something is included in a VW update, you'll be able to read about those items in the press release and release notes available on our webpage, such as VW 10.0.1 has done.

[Kevin]

This is a copy of a post I made under the 3D Solids Forum:

I just learned what a "viewport" is. This is my number one wish for VW. The lack of viewports is what keeps me looking at other software for solutions. The only thing that keeps me from leaving VW for a software program with viewports, is the dread of having to re-learn a new software program.

I also understand that some software programs have dynamically linked elevations and sections. I currently have a project where I have cut 9 sections. The floor plan has changed and I am now faced with redrawing all 9 of those sections. This is what I would have to do if I were hand-drafting. I expect more from a computer program. I expect VW to dynamically change all of those sections for me. Likewise I will have to redraw all of the exterior elevations since they do not update automatically either.

VW 10 does nothing to address my actual needs for my business. I will either wait for VW 11 or find another program. If these issues are not provided in VW 11 I know that I will be forced to switch to another program that does.

[Robert Anderson]

Kevin, VW does not have an "easy" solution for "hot sections" yet. However, automatically updating elevations are feasible using layer links or the easy-to-use Model View Tool in VectorWorks ARCHITECT and VectorWorks LANDMARK.

[jnr]

Kevin:

I feel your pain everyday. It is absolutely insane for a computer program which sole reason for being is to automate the drawing process, to force one to redraw sections. You might as well draw by hand. It drives me nuts. I looked seriously at Archicad last year, even bought two copies because of this exact problem (it also coincided with the 9.0 fiasco). Archicad will dynamically update sections (you can define them yourself)and has ODBC support(hot links to Word Excel and dxf files). In the end I too did not want to go thru the agony of learning another program so I stayed put.

Help is on the way. Hang tight for a little while. Believe it or not they claim to be working on the viewport/dynamic section functionality as we speak. If we're lucky, possibly a mid 10 release. As for elevations, Architect is pretty good at using the layer link to generate elevations. Depending on the building, you could probably cheat by setting a exterior wall to a different class and have it turned off in an elevation in order to fake a section. Never tried it but it might work. Like you I have to constantly recut sections. Its stupid and a waste of my time.

[Kevin]

Robert:

Thank you for the reply. Where is the Model View Tool? Does it exist in VW 9.5?

My experience with elevations is that the model is never complete enough for a finished elevation. I set each view of the model and then do a Convert Copy to Line. This is then pasted onto my Elevation Sheet. I then have to ungroup and edit the image to add missing lines and delete added lines.

The process of creating the model is often tedious without viewports. I have to draw it in plan, then switch to a side view to see if the height is right. Often times it is just easier to fake it by drawing on the elevation what does not actually exist in the model.

I would love to have an acurate model in all respects. That would allow for the layer linking of elevations and creation of renderings at any time of any view.

Creating that accurate model by constantly switching between plan view and side view and isometric view and cutting sections to see the effect is just too much work. I need multiple views at once that update in real time.

That is why I love Excel spreadsheets. I can create complex iterconnected formulas. When I change one value, all of the formulas update and give me real time feedback on the change. I do not hesitate to experiment because the results are so effortless and quick. If I had to manually recalculate tens of formulas by hand I would not be inclined to experiment with alternate values.

Likewise I am not eager to experiment with my VW designs. I cut lots of sections so that I can see my design. But the penalty is that if I make a change to the model then I have to manually recalculate all of those sections, (and elevations).

Learning to draw on the computer was fun, but now the honeymoon is over. I need more.

[Robert Anderson]

Kevin, the Model View Tool is in VW Architect 10 and VW Landmark 10. Combined with the Model Setup command, it makes for easy and accurate modeling in these programs.

[Kevin]

jnr

Thanks for your input. I feel better knowing that I am not alone in my struggle. Sounds like we are thinking very much alike. I was ready to make Archicad my first CAD purchase but was talked out of it. I was told that Minicad was just as good and cheaper.

Your "inside knowledge" of a possible future release is exciting and does bring hope. How is it you would know of this?

[ 12-10-2002, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: Kevin ]

[Kevin]

Robert;

I have the VW10 demo disk that was mailed to me by NNA. Will I be able to see how this function works by use of the demo?

[InstantGlueck]

Kevin,

i read all your post carefully? and i agree with you.

if the building is of generous dimensions, well?, you can better draw manually, as VW don't help you in such a Task as dynamically change the sections. And the model is no usable.

I think too about to change. but in archicad not all is OK. the fa?ades are quite usable, better as in VW, but you should to redone some things. In Sections is the same, but here much better as in VW. but some handJob is necessary too.

My feelings are that VW runs very slowly.

stbn

[Davide]

While I strongly hope that soon we'll get those

necessary features (viewports / single model approach) I'd like to invite to check the discussion on the same subject on the wish list.

I think there are some very good mentality/philosophy approaches to the viewports issues. Just saying copy

the AC viewports and the Archicad sections won't make a better VW in my opinion.

Again, for sure links are needed. It?s primitive the way we work, but especially for Architects there are other factors involved.

A building is not (simply) an object, a piece of industrial design, treated as a sectionable shell that we need to view and rotate from any angle like an egg in real time.

Section don?t come directly from floor plans. They cannot. Archicad cannot give me the sections just based on the floor plans and roof plans. A section is like a vertical floor plan and it?s part of my design, of my layout. I have to develop almost at the same time sections and floor plans to finally get the whole. I could even start with the section and then develop the plan and then readjust the whole thing to make it work. Drawing a section is studying, is not an automatic process, like a database. I enjoy drawing sections, and the only sections any cad can give me thru the plans, are just outlines, contours, pretty basic things that I can quickly do anyway. For real sections, with detailed structural and architectural elements, so far, I would have to draw it by myself. Not to mention that to make it look like the masterpieces sometimes sections are, for sure any automatic tool is inadequate. I have to choose line-weights and shades of grays and hatches and patterns and symbols by myself and decide how deep is my field of vision. In a similar way, but less stringent, the same applies to exterior elevations. So unless you are designing

Frank Gehry or Zaha Hadid kind of things, I don?t see a huge advantage on the auto section features, except preventing interns from drawing wrong building (1/8-1/4?) sections (outlines) because they get confused with the roof planes etc.

[Kevin]

Giovanni

I agree with you on the issue of needing to add more information in terms of text and lines by hand. I cannot see any automatic proceedure for that.

Especially in terms of presentation drawings. Often artwork is added to presentations that will not be present in the working drawings.

What I expect is the following:

1. I expect to be able to see multiple views of the model at the same time on the same screen.

2. I expect those views to be linked and all editable. This way I can work on the elevation and see those changes reflected on the floor plan. Or work on a section and have those changes reflected in the model.

Right now I am designing a house in cross section. The heights of the floors and roofs are critical. But now when I move a roof in section I am not moving it on the model. I still have to go to the Mod-Roof layer and move the roof element manually so that it is accurate in the model. This is what computer automation should be doing for me.

3. I expect sections to behave the same way the floor plans do now. Why can't the sections have fills and hatches like a floor plan? Why should I have to trace over them to add shading? After all a floor plan is nothing more than a section taken horizontally.

4. I do not expect VW to read my mind in terms of how I want line weights, etc. We are artists and as such will want to express our own presentation techniques. I simply want the model to talk to the component views.

As suggested I will take a look at the same topic under the Wish List.

[Davide]

Well Chris and Kevin, thanks for your comments.

I really hope

they'll introduce those features for version 10 or within the year anyway, whether I'll use them a lot or not. One of the reasons I'd like that, is that all of a sudden my pushing for this program will make even more sense to the AC nostalgic group in my office. I'm like a soldier on the war border, hoping to receive new ammo as soon as possible. Just a clipping tool for layer links/references would make a world of difference.