Cadplan Architecture Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 We have had a few crashes with this late 2012 Mac mini only when using Vectorworks 2015. VSS say it's due to the integrated graphics card intel HD4000 1GB. Does anyone know if this sounds right as in all other respects it performs fine? thanks Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee PVA - Admin Posted March 4, 2015 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted March 4, 2015 That would not surprise me at all. The Intel integrated cards (other than the Iris PRO, so far) are pretty underpowered and they often share system RAM rather than having their own dedicated VRAM. I personally recommend a dedicated graphics card capable of OpenGL 2.1 or greater with around 2GB of dedicated VRAM. 1 Quote Link to comment
digitalcarbon Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 i ran a Mac Mini late 2012. now i have a mac pro (see below) when vw 2015 was first released it crashed for me about once a week. very stable & this with the mac mini. now with sp 2 it crashed about twice an hour plus the space navigator puck flips me off into outer space about 50% off the time. updating any references ALWAYS crashes vw 2015.. the only plus to having the mac pro is that reopening vw is near instant. (solid state drive) so i do not update ref drawings i just close vw and reopen bottom line i had very little problem with my mac mini and the first issue of 2015 was not running yosemite then either. Quote Link to comment
Cadplan Architecture Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 Thanks Jim, It's a top spec Mac Mini, the graphics card is 1GB so hardly underpowered surely? It crashed 3 times yesterday when trying to stretch a wall in 2D so nothing complex. The specs of the MM have been the same for some years and this VW tech article http://kbase.vectorworks.net/questions/1139/Video+Card+%7B47%7D+Graphics+Card+Guidelines+for+Vectorworks+-+9-16-2014 actually says "In early 2009, most MacBooks, Mac minis, and iMacs started shipping with much more capable ATI Radeon HD graphic accelerators. This card provides generally adequate speed and reliability when running Vectorworks. " We bought the MM last September for around £800, so I wouldn't be happy to be told now that it's not 100% suitable to run VW2015. Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee PVA - Admin Posted March 5, 2015 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted March 5, 2015 They started shipping with dedicated graphics, but unfortunately they have switched back to the Intel integrated ones even in their MacBook Pro line, which is fine for basic office work or watching video, but are generally underpowered for Vectorworks. That line you quote comes after the line: "Integrated Graphics Accelerators Integrated Graphics Accelerators are available on some laptop and motherboard combinations. These types of media accelerators (Intel HD 3000, Intel GMA, etc) should be avoided as they are acceptable for basic use but often provide poor results when used with a graphics intensive applications like Vectorworks. " I can not personally stress enough staying away from integrated graphics cards. Quote Link to comment
Cadplan Architecture Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 Hi Jim, The article is dated 9/16/2014, the information given would appear to be confusing/contradictory as if you look into the history of Mac Minis, it's true that for a while they shipped with NVIDIA GeForce 320M, from mid 2011 they shipped with Intel HD Graphics 3000 or AMD Radeon HD 6630M. From late 2012 they started using the Intel HD4000 exclusively, this was used up until late 2014 when the switch was made to the Intel 5000 card. If all this is correct it means that the tech article advice falls short? You have quoted the previous paragragh of the article, however it doesn't mention the Intel HD 4000. My own Macbook Pro late 2012 with a 4000 card ran VW without any problems. If these type of cards are fine for gamers with fast action video graphics, then if they are not suited to simple tasks in Vectorworks then something must surely be wrong with the software. You also strongly advise staying away from integrated cards yet where do Nemetschek clearly state this as advice to VW users? Thanks Andrew Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee PVA - Admin Posted March 9, 2015 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted March 9, 2015 I can see how it could be misinterpreted. I'll clarify the wording on the kbase article. I've been working to get a Buyer's Guide created to make it crystal clear on which machines would be suitable and which would not. With Macs it wouldn't be that difficult, (since their lineup is less than 30 some various machines) but we are working on a different system for Windows, since it wouldn't be possible to list all the models specifically. Quote Link to comment
grant_PD Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I can tell you from experience that I have melted the motherboards of two computers (laptops) that had integrated graphics instead of dedicated graphics cards. Or rather, a dedicated graphic card fan attached to the graphic card. Even if your integrated graphics card seems to be doing well, it is causing a LOT of stress to your motherboard in terms of heat. Not Good. Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee PVA - Admin Posted March 10, 2015 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted March 10, 2015 If these type of cards are fine for gamers with fast action video graphics, then if they are not suited to simple tasks in Vectorworks then something must surely be wrong with the software. To clarify this portion though, no those cards are not good enough for gaming. They are marketed as such, but in general it is a false claim. They can support simple 2D gaming or browser-based games certainly, but they dont have the kind of horsepower to run games that use the same kinds of resources as Vectorworks. For instance, when many of the Intel graphics cards are benched with Cinebench, they give a result of 0 or fail outright, whereas even much older dedicated graphics cards will score much higher than that: http://cbscores.com/index.php?sort=gfx And in some cases, the results you get benching those kinds of cards will be all over the place. In the above example, multiple cards which SHOULD have similar scores (the Intel 4600s) have OpenGL scores of 0, 15, 9 and 36, indicating problems when working with 3D graphics which COULD be driver related or hardware related, but in either case can cause a user headaches. Quote Link to comment
Cadplan Architecture Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 Fine Jim, but most normal business people who may want to buy a Mac mini for Vectorworks wouldn't be wanting to concern themselves by delving into such esoteric research, and looking at geeky articles! I have already spent valuable business time investigating the issue, if those cards are not suitable for running Vectorworks then Nemetschek should make it crystal clear. As it stands we bought a Mac last September which you are saying is not suitable to run VW. I do find the whole situation rather confusing and unsatisfactory, again I repeat that my Macbook Pro with an Intel HD 4000 runs VW fine. I'm not sure where to go from here... Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee PVA - Admin Posted March 18, 2015 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted March 18, 2015 Agreed, its entirely too complex. Working on a more simplified at-a-glance reference resource that a new or existing user of any level of technical expertise can quickly check against when purchasing new hardware, without having to read an encyclopedia about GPUs first. Quote Link to comment
Cadplan Architecture Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 Thanks Jim, It sounds like you are saying that Nemetschek have not given good advice. What would their view be of my particular situation where I have now been informed that my Mac isn't suitable for running Vectorworks? Quote Link to comment
digitalcarbon Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 i had few problems with my mac mini (late 2012) running VW2015. even though they said not recommended. Quote Link to comment
digitalcarbon Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 also i just sold my mac min which i bought new july 2014. sold on eBay for $1,125.00 US Mac mini Late 2012 2.6GHz i7 16GB RAM 1TB HD they are in high demand ever since the new mac minis came out and under performs the previous one (i.e. Late 2012) Quote Link to comment
Cadplan Architecture Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 Interesting as the specs seems very similar, I see that an Intel HD card is still there. £760 was a good price! Quote Link to comment
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