v2010 stair tool and balustrades below nosings

[Christiaan]

Can the new singing dancin' stair tool do a balustrade as the attached image? That is, with the bottom rail of the balustrade coming down below the stair nosing.

[gScott]

if it can, it shouldn't be allowed to,

makes my eyes hurt

sorry

[Kool Aid]

Can the new singing dancin' stair tool do a balustrade as the attached image? That is, with the bottom rail of the balustrade coming down below the stair nosing.

At least I can't get it to do this.

I have started my own wish list for the stair tool, this being the 3rd or 4th item entered! The next one was a hand rail fixed to wall, as per your image, too?

I intend to send the list directly to Computerworks (since I have a direct contact with them) and I'd be more than happy to include other peoples' notions (if I deem them to be relevant?)

Overall, I am reasonably happy with the new stair tool, but obviously there's quite a learning curve.

[Christiaan]

if it can, it shouldn't be allowed to, makes my eyes hurt

In the UK it's called complying with the building regs.

Park K, paragraph 1.29:

Except on stairs in a building which is not likely to be used by children under 5 years the guarding to a flight should prevent children being held fast by the guarding. The construction should be such that:

a. a 100mm sphere cannot pass through any openings in the guarding

[gScott]

christiaan

building regs are fine,

there are many ways of

achieving compliance

balancing regulations,

material requirements,

costs + not least,

aesthetic design;

it's called architecture

i am not attacking you,

it is, in my opinion,

just one fugly railing,

particularly the totally

random relationship of the

verticals to the treads

but i suppose, on reflection,

we shouldn't let software

start having aesthetic

parameters,

click here for:

gorgeous, banal, fugly.

el cheapo, just affordable, insane

[Christiaan]

Regardless gideon, you've hijacked the thread. The fact is every stair we do with an attached guarding and no modification to the stair needs to go below the nosing is some fashion to meet building regs. Which is the vast majority of what we do.

[Kool Aid]

I'm sure that design of eg. Public Housing in South Africa is entirely driven by Architecture.

Notwithstanding: the fundamental requirement, as expressed by Christiaan, applies also to Architectural solutions: the balustrade/railing/guard (whatever its configuration) needs to go where the Architect wants it to go.

In one of my old stock designs, there is a glass panel that follows the structural bottom of the concrete stair run (? 50), is at least 1200 high and has a hand rail at 900.

[gScott]

dear petri

remaining off topic,

"public housing" in south africa

is barely driven by 'construction'

let alone "Architecture".

district 9 will give you a fair

impression of the vast majority

of south african accommodation,

'nigerians' + aliens excluded...

definitely more preferable, your

stock design, than what has been

illustrated as, presumably, superior

euro design. sorry, keep forgetting

that that uk is still trying furiously

to remain non-euro. but then again,

i know 'bugger all' about europe,

thomas, milkwood etc...

presume you left enough space

between flights to get the bolts

in to hold the glass, we africans

have enormous fists and getting

the spanner in at the top + bottom

can be a pain in the whatsit

ok, enough...

kisses kisses

[gScott]

christiaan

ok, enough of my flippancy.

i don't think that a PIO could possibly

anticipate the myriad ways people will

try to do a balustrade.

if i could do a balustrade the same

way twice i could make more money

with standardised details, but real

life, my clients, and i aren't like

that.

the best thing i do with with the

PIO hand rail is to set it at a

height of 2100mm to check headroom

in section VP's, which, odd as it

sounds is actually extremely valuable

to me. we do very tight, chi-chi projects

where every cm counts + not screwing up

the headroom is an issue, every time.

so i don't think we can expect PIO

flexibility in every aspect...

grovelingly yours

gideon

[Christiaan]

i don't think that a PIO could possibly

anticipate the myriad ways people will

try to do a balustrade.

All I?m asking for is the ability to achieve building regs compliance with a common stair configuration in the UK. Not much to ask for I would have thought.

Any any case I think you?re actually wrong about what to expect from PIOs. A sufficiently abstracted graphically controlled PIO should be able to do anything one likes. The problem is these dialogue box driven PIOs which have to make a myriad to assumptions about your starting point.

Check out Cadimages Tools' Stair Builder for the direction I think PIOs will need to go in:

http://www.cadimagetools.com/resources/movieView.aspx?id=152

http://www.cadimagetools.com/resources/movieView.aspx?id=152

[Kool Aid]

All I?m asking for is the ability to achieve building regs compliance with a common stair configuration in the UK. Not much to ask for I would have thought.

Let the record show that similar conditions exist in all civilized countries I know. I don't have any experience with South Africa, though. Is it one?

It is in fact curious why our German friends don't know this.

[Kool Aid]

(This is a separate issue in some respects.)

Whilst it is certainly true that 3D-modelling of mundane stairs (public housing, separate fire exits of high-rises etc.) is theoretically nonsensical, we have a process issue here.

In many legislations, permit application drawings are required to include sections of all fire exit stairs, to establish headrooms, total heights of flights etc.

Surely we are entitled to expect that a Section Viewport can, substantially, be used for this? Here outside South Africa, we don't do drafting any more.

[brudgers]

if it can, it shouldn't be allowed to, makes my eyes hurt

In the UK it's called complying with the building regs.

Park K, paragraph 1.29:

Except on stairs in a building which is not likely to be used by children under 5 years the guarding to a flight should prevent children being held fast by the guarding. The construction should be such that:

a. a 100mm sphere cannot pass through any openings in the guarding

There are simpler methods of compliance.

Some involve stringers.

Looking at the way in which the mounting plates overlap the double lines in your sketch, I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect that NNA could anticipate your particular solution.

[Kool Aid]

Let the record show that, according to brudgers, it is easier to change an entire construction industry than a PIO.

[brudgers]

The entire construction industry?

According to whom?

Your wife, Morgan Fairchild?

[Jonathan Pickup]

can we please get this discussion back on topic please?

[Christiaan]

There are simpler methods of compliance.

Contractor: You want to add a nib to the sides of the precast concrete stair?

Christiaan: Yes.

Contractor: Why can't we just do it the way we normally do?

Christiaan: Well we're trying to do this whole BIM thing. Heard of that? Yeah, well, it's all in 3D right, and my software can't really draw the stair we normally do, not unless we go to great effort modelling it manually, so we thought better just to change the way we do the stair. Anyway, the guys on the forum said it was simpler.

Contractor: Oh, okay, that makes perfect sense, we'll get right to it.

P.S. sorry Jonathan, couldn't resist.

[brudgers]

Christiaan: Well we're trying to do this whole BIM thing. Heard of that? Yeah, well, it's all in 3D right, and my software can't really draw the stair we normally do, not unless we go to great effort modelling it manually, so we thought better just to change the way we do the stair. Anyway, the guys on the forum said it was simpler.

I want Vectorworks to design a parking garage in the style of Thomas Jefferson.

[Christiaan]

I could show you a thousand examples of the stair I've described (if I could be bothered). Show me one example of a parking garage in the style of Thomas Jefferson.

[Kool Aid]

Christiaan: Well we're trying to do this whole BIM thing. Heard of that? Yeah, well, it's all in 3D right, and my software can't really draw the stair we normally do, not unless we go to great effort modelling it manually, so we thought better just to change the way we do the stair. Anyway, the guys on the forum said it was simpler.

I want Vectorworks to design a parking garage in the style of Thomas Jefferson.

Dear me: the Parking Garage PIO is missing from my workspace!

[brudgers]

I could show you a thousand examples of the stair I've described (if I could be bothered). Show me one example of a parking garage in the style of Thomas Jefferson.

The Palladio Software can do it.

Just ask the late Frank Pepper.

[Kool Aid]

Including disabled parking?

Remarkable!