2008 and Cinema 4D 10.5

[AndyM]

Does anybody know the status of the VW>C4D exchange plugs with C4D 10.5 and/or VW 2008? Are they broken? News on updates?

[Guest]

Contact C4D for the details. They create the plugin.

[graz]

This is one area where VW and Cinema need to collectively "get on the ball."

This plug-in has existed for some time now but is quite hobbled in that there are severe limitations on what gets transferred and how it gets transferred.

Now with version 10.5 C4D offers DWG import. All object names and file structure remain intact. It seems the AutoCAD + Cinema combo has really "leapfrogged" the VW combo.

Strange that seamless transfer hasn't been developed between these two.

[G_Hannigan]

New versions of C4D & VW will probably break the plug in. While C4D provides the plug in, I think it is created by someone else. If broken, I'd expect a delay of a month or more before a new plug in appears.

I usually give Maxon tech support a call.

[AndyM]

It was more like 4 months the last time it was broken. The DWG route does not allow for dynamically updating the models like the VW route does, so I disagree that they have been leapfrogged in any way. After all NNA and Maxon are both part of the same parent company.

[graz]

While the VW combo does offer dynamic updating, much like the exchange process, it's quite rigid and, at least for us, requires a tremendous amount of alteration in our file structure to make it work correctly.

It just feels too inflexible to really be a useful tool for us.

I can't understand why there isn't a simple "one to one" transfer of items with all names intact within the complete heirarchy.

Right now, only the container folders (based on color or class) retain their names. The items within are renamed generic polygon objects.

[G_Hannigan]

After all NNA and Maxon are both part of the same parent company.

True, but neither party seems very enthusiastic about improving the exchange plug in. The addition of C4D Architecture Edition, (dwg & Allplan support), doesn't make me optimistic about VW Exchange's future development.

[David Ormsby]

I have to mention this; while I understand the plugin is under Maxon's wing (and who ever they subbed it out to) - I cannot upgrade VW until that plug in is released. I count on these programs working together for my daily bread.

What's frustrating is that Maxon has the same attitude - they tend to say it's another developers issue and when we see it, we'll see it.

[G_Hannigan]

While NNA & Maxon may be part of the same parent, they view each other as competitors. This Plug In issue resulted in a very clear statement last September from Robert Anderson regarding NNA's position on the subject.

http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=65896&page=0&fpart=1

While frustrating to user's of C4D & Artlantis, it makes sense that they would chafe at promoting someone else's rendering solution.

George

[Jershaun]

I still don't like the fact these 2 programs aren't more tightly connected.

That said, I think because of VW2008's new colour palette, all the colour export options will not work with the current plug-in. However, exporting with the "Class" and "Texture" option works. So at least we have these 2 options.

BTW I'm using C4D 10.1

[AndyM]

I've emailed Maxon tech support both here and in Germany. I'll let you all know what they say. I wouldn't worry about the future of this plug in. As long as there are enough users to justify the development cost, I think Maxon will continue to update it - they'll just take their time. The plugin made by the same people that make the one for Artlantis.

[AndyM]

Maxon DE says:

"We were not able to test our plugin with VectorWorks2008 at time. So I can't tell you exactly,

whenever the new pluginupdate will be available. But there will be an update soon."

[G_Hannigan]

As long as there are enough users to justify the development cost, I think Maxon will continue to update it - they'll just take their time. The plugin made by the same people that make the one for Artlantis.

Andy,

I'm confident that they will maintain the link to VW. The question I have is whether they will enhance it, or just repair the link when needed.

George

[Christiaan]

This is one area where VW and Cinema need to collectively "get on the ball."

Unfortunately, from comments I've seen, the view at NNA appears to be that third party renderers are seen as a threat to RenderWorks rather than value-adder to VectorWorks. From this I can only deduce that RenderWorks isn't seen as being able to compete with other renderers on its own two feet, and I'd have to agree.

Until the view above changes?and there are signs that it may?you won't get NNA talking to third party render developers. All we can do is keep applying pressure I guess.

[graz]

That's disappointing to hear.

Our Engineering dept. holds only one seat of VW and 8 seats of AutoCAD.

Our Design dept. uses C4D (7 seats)

I was hoping to transition everyone, Engineers AND Designers, to VW for all modeling tasks. I was justifying the "transition pain" with the payoff of seamless transfer we'd have from VW into C4d for our rendering needs. With that transfer not being quite so seamless, and indications that it may not improve in the future, it really shelves that plan.

[Jershaun]

I actually spoke too soon. I only received 2008 on Wednesday so I didn't have time to test properly. The test I did initially was just an extruded rectangle which worked with "Class and Textures" however yesterday I tried a test with one wall only but VW crashed.

When VW2008 came out, I knew it wouldn't be compatible with C4D so I contacted Maxon but they said that they are still waiting for their copy to arrive so they can test the plug-in. Surely a copy of VW2008 should have been sent to Maxon in Beta stage seeing they belong to the same company, I mean it's just company courtesy.

It seems that NNA is intent on making their users' lives painful.

You can sugar coat it as much as possible but sorry, this sucks.

Edited October 19, 2007 by Shaun

[AndyM]

I heard from Maxon US and they said "we are unable to comment on the status of a new exchange plugin for VectorWorks 2008."

I'll let my wallet do the complaining for me. When it works I'll upgrade.

[G_Hannigan]

Surely a copy of VW2008 should have been sent to Maxon in Beta stage seeing they belong to the same company, I mean it's just company courtesy.

Shaun,

"With the Spring, 2000 merger of Diehl Graphsoft Inc. and Nemetschek AG of Munich, Germany into Nemetschek North America (N.A.), the company entered a new era. As Nemetschek AG's largest US subsidiary, Nemetschek N.A. joined the parent company's network of more than 40 branches and subsidiaries throughout Europe."

Despite this description of the relationship of NNA & Nemetschek AG on the NNA website, the comment by Robert Anderson seems to more accurately reflect how the subsidiaries interact:

"Christiaan, you have your preferences, I'm not going to beat that dead horse here.

George, it is simply not our role to communicate *anything* on behalf of another company. It is the role of the third party company to talk to you (their customer) as to the state of their development. To do otherwise is simply bad business. We were or are not aware of any particular problem on the part of C4D or Abvent.

Those of you who have chosen to use a third-party add-on for rendering for whatever reason (and I'm sure your reasons are valid for you) are welcome to do so. But this inevitably entails becoming your own "technical support provider" from time to time. Now is one of those times. As we say, "You pays your money and you takes your choice."

We happily assist either Abvent or Maxon with tech support when they so request in the process of making their port. All I'm saying is, you shouldn't expect us to go overboard in promoting a competitor's product.

_________________________

Robert Anderson VP Integrated Products Nemetschek North America "

http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=65896&page=0&fpart=1

George

[Christiaan]

I think this quote is a little more disconcerting:

... bug fixes that relate to products that compete with our own probably won't get absolute top priority.

And, for the record, I don't think NNA should "go overboard in promoting a competitor's product."

I just think they should stop thinking of 3rd party renderers primarily as competitors to RenderWorks and instead as value-adders to VectorWorks. If this were the case I think we'd find a lot more communication going on between NNA and third party renderer developers. And VectorWorks, for instance, wouldn't be one of the only serious 3D modellers to be missing in action with regard to Maxwell Renderer support ... which doesn't exactly promote the idea that VectorWorks is a serious modeller.

[Petri]

Faacinating!

While it is certainly true that NNA cannot speak on behalf of another company owned by the owners of NNA ("the German sofware giant Nemetschek AG", as the press release said), a na?ve and idealistic person like your truly would think that a Vice President could ring the parent company and ask for (i) advice and (ii) improvement on the situation.

Obviously this is indeed about competition and RenderWorks being the dead horse: "No comment. I don't recall. I have had no professional relations with that software."

Maybe in future we will see more of this: the President of VW Integrated Products Inc. denying any responsibility for non-functionality of his firm's products when used in products by VectorWorks Inc. (a wholly-owned subsidiary of Nemetschek North America): "As we say, you pays your money and you takes your choice," told Mr. President. "You paid to VectorWorks Inc., not us." However, Mr. President of VectorWorks Inc. says that "it is simply not our role to communicate *anything* on behalf of another company. It is the role of the third party company to talk to you (their customer) as to the state of their development." Both Presidents also reminded us that the problem is caused partly by VW Manuals Inc., partly by VW Rotated Rectangle Inc. The spokespersons of these companies refused to comment in detail, pending possible legal action, but made it clear that VW Integrated Products Inc. had not supplied software specifications, claiming commercial confidentiality.

[AndyM]

Some of you early adopters may remember that this plug-in was originally intended to be sold and supported by NNA! I originally purchased it from them. This only lasted a few months then they abandoned it.

Maxon has been extremely helpful with assisting their competitors develop 3rd party render engines. Final Render and now V-Ray are available and the developers have all commented that Maxon's SDK support has been great.

[graz]

Not to send this discussion in a different direction, but Andy is correct in that Maxon, while they offer their own, very strong, integrated rendering engine, they are very helpful to any 3rd party solution developers. They do this with all facets of their application. They seem to understand that their users like to have options, even if we don't all take advantage of them. As a dedicated user, t's nice to see that Maxon ownership has not chosen to create an island of their product.

[andrewbirch]

NNA is really the stick in the mud, regarding the plugin, IMHO.

Maxon develops the plugin via 3rd party developer in France, I believe. They must wait to get Vectorworks2008 in their hands, to update the plugin. Its no coincidence that as NNA began to market the Renderworks side of their platform, that they abruptly stopped selling the plugin as an NNA product, forcing most of us to rely on the superb folks at Maxon to keep everybody happy.

Instead of promoting Vectorworks as a serious platform and modeler that plays well with AT LEAST, it own sister companies, they've realeased 2008- a sad attempt at a major release with more graphics and packaging than actual usefulness, and gosh ! Sketchup 6 import is a not a bug fix, its a feature ! (oops, still not fixed)

As a long-time user of both products, I see Maxon increasing their market share and commitment to their user base, and just more smoke coming from NNA. Renderworks is a pathetic tool beyond basic visualization, and the fact that they are tyring to market it on par with major renderers just cracks me up. Try to render one of your projects with Ambient Occlusion or Radiosity settings in Renderworks.

Its a serious joke. Take a large polygonal project and do a competant Final Renderworks with more than 6 lights. Note to Dan Monahan "Renderworks- its almost better than using your markers and airbrush when youre drunk"

Ironically, Archicad, decided to keep the few strengths it had, and relegate the rendering and sub-dibvision modeling side to Maxon, and its now a stronger product for it.

This is what I believed NNA was destined to do a few years back, but they hitched their wagon to the Lightworks engine, and decided they could impliment (or at least market it in brochures) it better than those who had been implementing Lightworks for years (with a code base than can handle more than 500K polygons) .

Its a shame they make it harder for all of us by trying to be all things, to all people.

But take heart folks, I hear Vectorworks 2009 is coming out in March. Its gonna be really fantanstic.

[Jershaun]

Christiaan, AndyM, graz, andrewbirch:

All you guys have good points. I followed the development of Vray and I bought it when it came out but I also upgraded from C4D9 to C4D10 and I'm happy (not with VW2008 upgrade though) because both the products work TOGETHER. I really admire the folks at Maxon. Now to get the NNA guys to take their fingers out of the ears.

I also purchased Renderworks but I use it for my elevations and quick setups but the presentation drawings, I leave to C4D. I don't look at Renderworks and C4D as competitors but each has their uses. Can't you see that, NNA? Also, NNA, if you give full support to the C4D plug-in, you're not going to sell any less Renderworks. Please stop being childish.

Thanks, my 2 cents,

[Jershaun]

But take heart folks, I hear Vectorworks 2009 is coming out in March. Its gonna be really fantanstic.

Is your source reliable and HOW fantastic is it going to be? Is 2009 going to break the plug-in again?

I'm going to find it even harder to upgrade after forking out a bundle for 2008. I think the 2008 users should be compensated for 2008 with 2009 for free or a 10% cost.