6 Weeks Newbie

[Guest]

6 weeks it have been - totally new and sorting this VW 12.5 out. Being a terrible 6 weeks but getting to it. A BIG TX to MIKEOZ for all his help. A very good person to have on your side. No one available here locally and would like to have him supported in buying from him all future seats.

The project consists of a 4 hectare yard with a 64 year old distillery and winery to be upgraded - total estimated cost currently = US$6M. It consists of the alterations and extensions with civil, structural,electrical and mechanical upgradings.

What is done after 6 weeks is the alterations and the image enhancements to make it more tourist friendly and getting the existing buildings upgraded with the workflow and machinery.The rear extension is to be done here after.

My concerns about VW (I'm not there yet) is the BIM's (Being reading the posts) - would like to get the worksheets to produce the amounts of sq meter of walls, Cub meters of concrete and if possible the amounts of bricks, mortar, sand stone etc after feeding the data to a worksheet/data base etc. Seems according the posts that there is difficulty to get that long haul and desk intensive QS out of VW. Is it a bit to long call yet ? Just asking!

I have done the foundations, foundation walls, floors and walls apart for easier accessment.

Would like to see more structural design (3D) capabilities that gives the steel cut lenghts and QS out. Also the IBR roof sheeting amounts and types with the type of insulations etc.

But sofar so good - very happy at a 72 MB file and the speed and quality of rendering in OPENGL alone for presentation purposes. Save as PDF for presentations and the quality is good. No complains.

http://adobe.kodakgallery.com/Slideshow....mp;conn_speed=1

[Robert Anderson]

clb, the worksheets can quantify just about anything you want. It's really a matter of learning how to use "search criteria" to define a database row on a worksheet, and to use formulas on the individual cells in the database row header to report the data you want. I know that's a lot of terms, but once you learn the concepts (which are not really all that complicated) then you can get your worksheets to do pretty much what you wnat. In other words, if you've drawn it, you can quantify it.

I will be the first to admit that UI for the worksheet is more cryptic than it could be, but the functionality of the worksheets is quite consistent.

[Robert Anderson]

clb, a second note: what training have you done? Are you learning from the manual, or using the CD training? Any of NNA's or 3rd party books?

[Guest]

Robert

No training on VW - Here ain't trainers of the quality that you guys have there. MIKEOZ was the big ask and answer king with his QT movies when I got firmly stuck. Other Cad's - training external and internal and just figured it out logically. Experience of CAD 3D operation helped alot.

Used your books as supplied and the online training movies. I think the ONE and ONLY CD with the initial purchase is not enough and is scary to say at least - It shows but does not show or give any confidence, just that it will be a huge maintain to get over.

For any new users a fully and comprohensive supplied CD training material with VW is a must. The frustration levels will be less and you guys will have lots less to answer. And the ranting will be nearly nullified. I myself at sometimes felt to drop it and go back to AC and TC as the learning curve just felt to steep.

Bottomline - VW lacking of supplied training material in the effort to save money maybe their stumbling point where many would be total supporters can make a negative decision. Enough said and it is my opinion.

What I did was to label the building sequence sections from A-Z in classes. It just made sense for making QS easier. For Example; L. Main Cellar Concrete Foundations, L. Main Cellar Founation Walls, L. Main Cellar Concrete Floor, L. Main Cellar Existing Walls etc etc It will make (I believe so) the QS much easier. At the moment I tackle VW head-on but from obstacle to obstacle. No use to try and grasp the total picture at once, as you move along you does get it.

Maybe I make a mistake here and there, - so what - I'm learning it to the best of my abilities with what I got and with the help of MIKEOZ. Will come to the QS at later stage and am sure we will get it right. VW gave me everything so-far needed. As mentioned I will post the stuff neatly put together and explaining what we would like to see incorporated as for everyday / every project usage. Especially on Civil/Structural.

The next phase is the new extensions and then the mechanical alterations and extensions. Will keep posting.

Regards

[Petri]

I think your QS would be easier if you'd use layers for floors (levels) and classes for construction element types & materials (eg in-situ concrete slabs, brick walls etc). Thus adding a layer would automatically allow you to assign any materials on that level.

A hierarchical "nomenclature" (with "reverse" syntax, eg. Concrete-Walls) is another sensible mechanism.

[Guest]

TX Petri

Good point. Need all the help I can get. Will try it your way too. Just need the info to make calculated decisions. You can make decisions like that with only the information on hand. Another point for VW to notice the importance of a WELL CONSTRUCTED TRAINING CD's which should be included from the start.

Just a penny in the bush - why don't VW not get the real good training CD's from the 3rd Party Holders (look like they have it) and include it with all first buyer sales - Get an agreement for a lower price and include it in the sales cost and the 3rd parties will generate a more consistent income ? Will obviously be to advantage of all parties.

[Robert Anderson]

clb, it's penny-wise to scrimp on training. It's a complicated system. Talk to your dealer about getting some of the training CDs.

As for layers and classes, Petri is spot-on. Think of a class as "what" something is and a layer as "where" it is.

[Guest]

Already asked.....2 x times.No getting back... You guys in the First World have all you needs. I bet if I was allowed as requested in December 2006 to buy from CadCourse originally it was here by plane long time since - They do deliver !

That is why I hammer on all inclusive training CD's. First thing asked is "How big is the learning curve and what is the time to be productive ?" Looks like all developers misses that point.

A training class is a luxury in money and valuable time available here. If it is requested and be attended it is a must to get the "polish" on the knowledge obtained from training CD's.

I won't let go on that point. The included Training / Introduction CD is a typical example of getting you near the point of, off the hook, instead of on the hook bait and all.

Especially for as you said - a complicated program. It justifies the fact that the training CD's should be of the most highest standard.

I have no wish to get in a debate over this point any further - you asked , I give experience - it is my opinion of a big mistake that all developers make instead of including that and uses it in a marketing campaign - word spreads fast, sales with it.

[Guest]

On the post of What & Where

I fit the classes to the A - Z system and layers the classes get assigned to the "Main Cellar", Machine Room etc

[russh]

clb makes a valid point. For a professional CAD package, the supplied user manuals and help files leave much to be desired.

[Petri]

Think of a class as "what" something is and a layer as "where" it is.

Thanks, Robert! I have usually referred to these as "logical and "physical", but of course what & where make more sense to people with round ears. I'll start to use the better descriptions.

Now, if we also knew "who", "when" & "why", maybe also whether "who" had a motive, things would be just swell.

(This is not only a horridly limp joke. In a full BIM-system, these should be tracked - just substitute "motive" with "authority". )

[Petri]

clb makes a valid point. For a professional CAD package, the supplied user manuals and help files leave much to be desired.

This is certainly true, but QS-type of operations are a rarity among VW-users (beyond simple scheduling, which alone is obviously too difficult to some) and the situations & approach vary vastly.

Producing training material covering everything anyone might ever want to use the program for is impossible.

Having said this, the manuals are often helpful only to those who already know what can be done and maybe even something about the "how". This can be extremely frustrating.

Having now said that, too, there are situations where a trainer or consultant is the only sensible way.

[Guest]

Just to explain about cost - with the exchange rate and taxes imposed it costs 7.5 times as it should be or as advertised in US$.

To start paying for trainers and consultants will not make it worthwhile especially for a "smart and small sized Firm"

Again developers look at their doorsteps only - consider other users too please. To buy your packages at that exchange rate is not "just" a decision. For that "little" decision, the lack of decent training material is actually a disgrace.

[Jonathan Pickup]

training is available in many places, i write training manuals and provide on-line training. Like Robert i say that it?s penny wise and dollar foolish to skimp on training.

My manuals and training are available from

http://www.archoncad.co.nz/

[Guest]

TX ArchonCad

MIKOZ already given me your link. Already read it and is impressed with your efforts to help others, although not your duty to fullfill that aspect. Will make the contact in the near future.

Bottomline what I said is that VW can make a deal with persons like you and include those CD's in the sale at a reduced cost. All parties winners, VW get the image of caring for customers, You get regular sales at a reduced cost but higher volumes and the Customers are extremely satisfied and spreading VW as a good and fully balanced program in all aspects. And sales start gunning.

Sounds good. In and after service always give the long haul outlasting formulae.

[kevin nicol design]

Hey Folks,

I ordered VW Designer 12 from Resolve Software, the western Canadian dealer. As part of the deal they gave me their full set of training CD's, which were a big help in at least getting going with the program. I am an industrial designer with a big love for wood, so I design small homes and furniture, and wanted a package that could give me some ability to cross scales, from site design to small parts for custom hardware, so it fits.

The CD's are limited, but like I say, got me going.

Hats off to everyone who is posting on this list - it helps greatly to have access to the information of such a generous user group as y'all...

Kevin.