Can you pick up new site levels from a modified site model?

[LisaCoxGardens]

I'm working on a steeply sloped site and I wondered whether it's possible to pick up the new levels from the modified site.

 

So, for example, for the sloped driveway, I'd like to pick up the levels part way down the slope where a pathway will be joining it.  

 

I've tried to stake tool but this only seems to pick up the existing levels on the site model even though it's set to "proposed" in the tool preferences.

[Jeff Prince]

The stake tool is capable of displaying either the existing or proposed elevation as you noted and regardless of how the site model is set to display (existing vs proposed).

Are you sure you have your stake configured correctly?  If so, it should work.

 

Example of how stakes should behave.  Left one is set to Existing site model, right one is set to Proposed.  Blue contour is proposed 115'.

 

 

[Tom W.]

Unless 'for the sloped driveway' means it's the elevation of a Hardscape that @LisaCoxGardens is trying to display with the Stake: I think the Stake sees the site model underneath the Hardscape if the Hardscape has a thickness + is set to cut the site model...?

[Jeff Prince]

10 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

Unless 'for the sloped driveway' means it's the elevation of a Hardscape that @LisaCoxGardens is trying to display with the Stake: I think the Stake sees the site model underneath the Hardscape if the Hardscape has a thickness + is set to cut the site model...?

 

Well, if you are staking a hardscape that has thickness, you would not reference the site model in the stake setup would you.... 🙂

You would stake the hardscape object.

[Tom W.]

21 minutes ago, Jeff Prince said:

 

Well, if you are staking a hardscape that has thickness, you would not reference the site model in the stake setup would you.... 🙂

You would stake the hardscape object.

 

Yep 🙂

And that would mean either inserting the Stake in a 3D view or inserting it in Top/Plan then running Send to Surface...? Or is there another way?

I only mention this because I have been caught out using Stakes in VPs where they merrily pick up Site Model elevations but you can easily place them on Hardscapes or Landscape Areas not realising the elevations being returned are no longer coming from the terrain... (I mean gravel drives etc draped over the terrain)

It would be nice if the Stake saw the hardscapes in these circumstances as part of the site model, same way you can choose hardscape when sending to surface.

[Jeff Prince]

5 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

Or is there another way?

 

There's always another way in this software.  Data Tags for instance...

[Tom W.]

1 minute ago, Jeff Prince said:

 

There's always another way in this software.  Data Tags for instance...

 

I have a #DTRLZ# Data Tag but it still needs sending to surface...

[LisaCoxGardens]

Many thanks for your responses.  I was trying to pick up the hardscape so this has been really helpful.  I've been able to place a stake and send to surface to see the finished level at a given height.  I will have a look at the data tags too.  Either way, it will also help with setting out drawings.

[LisaCoxGardens]

Hello Tom and Jeff.

 

Should I be able to pick up the new hardscape levels when I'm annotating a viewport? 

 

When I place a stake on a hardscape object in the design layer and then send to surface of the hardscape it picks up the finished modified level of the hardscape (which is what I want), but nothing happens when I do the same in the viewport.

 

Any ideas?

 

These are the settings I'm using for the stake object....

 

 

It's just a bit of a long process if I have to manually add the new levels to the setting out drawing when I'm sure there must be a way.

 

Thanks

Lisa

[Tom W.]

1 hour ago, LisaCoxGardens said:

Should I be able to pick up the new hardscape levels when I'm annotating a viewport? 

 

When I place a stake on a hardscape object in the design layer and then send to surface of the hardscape it picks up the finished modified level of the hardscape (which is what I want), but nothing happens when I do the same in the viewport.

 

This is the point I was making above. I'm not sure what the workaround is, other than manually adding the appropriate offset (the thickness of the Hardscape) in the OIP for the Stake or inserting them on the Design Layer. 

[Jeff Prince]

2 hours ago, LisaCoxGardens said:

but nothing happens when I do the same in the viewport.

 

I'm of the opinion that Stakes should only be placed in Design Layers.

While Vectorworks allows you to place them within viewports on Sheet Layers, you are asking for trouble doing so.

It's probably best to use and think of a Stake as a site model related object rather than an annotation.  I think of them as real world wood stakes and use other forms of annotation when I need them.  I also do not use VWX contour labels... too unpredictable.

 

[Tom W.]

1 minute ago, Jeff Prince said:

I also do not use VWX contour labels... too unpredictable.

 

Have you tried them in VW2024 Update 4? I notice there have been some changes/improvements but not tried out..

[Jeff Prince]

1 minute ago, Tom W. said:

 

Have you tried them in VW2024 Update 4? I notice there have been some changes/improvements but not tried out..

 

Nope, I stay 1 year or more behind on my software for production work.

I was burned pretty bad by the contour label bug and lost over 8 hours of work across a several projects a few years ago.

It's simply too risky to be a Vectorworks beta tester and I have low confidence of these years long bugs being resolved, especially when AI rendering is the new hotness and overshadows fixing existing workflows.

Unfortunately, when it's mission critical, I have to rely on manual annotation or other software solutions entirely.

[Tom W.]

Fair enough. I have only just started using VW2024 myself due to several bugs which were only resolved in Update 4.

 

Be interested to know what the feedback on this is:

 

 

Not really working on any site models myself this moment...

[LisaCoxGardens]

Thanks guys - I'm still quite new to VW.  Makes sense to use on the design layers but seems a shame that you can't pick up the level for the sheet layer when the contractor needs that info.  Sometimes I think it would be quicker to if I went back to hand drawing! 😂

 

I'll do it manually for this project as I have a deadline next week, but I'll have a further dig when I have a bit more time and head space!

[Tom W.]

5 minutes ago, LisaCoxGardens said:

seems a shame that you can't pick up the level for the sheet layer when the contractor needs that info. 

 

You can still show the stakes in viewports, you just need to place them on the design layer rather than in the annotations space of the VP

[LisaCoxGardens]

Yes, thank Tom, I did try that - text looks quite small though - I'll see how it looks when I print it out

[Tom W.]

2 hours ago, LisaCoxGardens said:

Yes, thank Tom, I did try that - text looks quite small though - I'll see how it looks when I print it out

 

You can right-click on the VP to edit the Design Layer + increase the text size of the Stakes + scale the marker in the OIP if necessary