Multi-discipline Collaboration with Revit BIM Model and Vectorworks.

[dcg]

Hi, 

Has anyone got experience of collaborating with a revit BIM model in UK?

 

I work as a Free lance Landscape Architect in Uk and I am currently losing jobs due to my current contracts requiring BIM compatibility. and I am using VW.

 

I am not able to convince colleagues that it is possible to work collaboratively exporting with VW as Revit of Ifc.

They don't know vectorworks nor use revit, and are convinced that I should be using Revit. There seems to be a presumption that autocad users have that working with VW does not work and so they equally assume the same with revit. 

 

If so Could you contact me back so that I could understand what the experience is like and if there have been any complaints or issues with uploading to Revit collaboratively?

 

[loic.jourdan]

Hi, 

 

I'm the technician in a landscape department, based in the UK, and have had to collaborate with Revit on a couple of BIM projects now.

 

I would suggest having a look at this post from Jack, I found it super helpful for setting up projects that will then be sent to BIM coordinators/architects:

 

My personal experience has not exactly been plain sailing and we have had push back on our use of VW, but it is possible to work between the different platforms. I find it's important to remember (and occasionally remind others) that it is the BIM workflow, not the Revit workflow. VW exports to IFC without issue and we have had positive feedback from architects on projects when using VW.

 

If there is anything else I can do to help out just send me a message, I've had plenty of issues with it in the past, the post I have linked from Jack was a real help and eliminated lots of the problems I was encountering. 

 

[dcg]

Thanks Loic.

I think we have met on the VW tech help line.

I am about to start a large landscape BIM project RIBA stages 3 and 4 end of Feb this year. I have set up classes, materials and slabs/hardscapes etc, but I am assuming that there are a few reports that I will need to produce too. Is there a section on VW University that I might be able to review that might point out some useful BIM workflows that you are awrae of?

 

Dermot

[loic.jourdan]

Hi Dermot, 

Ah we mostly likely have met at some point then!

 

I've not really found anything on the university to be massively helpful in terms of BIM, they seem to work a lot on idealistic scenarios which I find is very rarely, if ever, the case when working on a live project. I did find one video on there that spoke briefly about BIM workflows for landscape that may help, if you go into the landscape tab and type BIM into the search bar you should find it ("SWITCHING YOUR FIRM TO A BIM WORKFLOW & MINDSET"). 

 

If you have layers, classes, materials and hardscapes all set up I'd say you're doing a good job already! Just be aware with some BIM projects that they may ask you to use a uniclass system - This is a bit of pain for landscape as it has clearly been developed for architect/MEP with landscape as a second thought but its a good idea to be at least aware of it just in case it becomes a requirement. 

 

For myself, the hardest part about the BIM process was working in 3D as we had previously only worked in 2D, but if you can get to grips with the modelling you should be fine! Things like adding IFC data is relatively easy to do once you have the materials/model ready. As far as exporting reports to go with the model goes, we have no really been asked for this before, so long as you can provide a 3D model with data attached and 2D drawings from that model, you should be fairly comfortable. That's just my current (limited) experience, but if you do need to provide reports it is relatively easy to set these up to be done automatically from your model.

 

Just make sure you are given a BEP (BIM Execution Plan) and ensure it has the coordinates you need to set up your file (using the link to the community post I sent in my first response). This has been the main stumbling block for us, if you can, get one of the architects to send you their model through to reference into your file so you can check everything links up and your building is correctly located.

 

It sounds like you're well prepared for it, if I can think of anything else that's been super helpful for me I will let you know, currently its just been a bit of trial and error process for us (and definitely still is). Just do your best to give yourself plenty of time to work on it. Good luck!

[Poot]

Quote

They don't know vectorworks nor use revit, and are convinced that I should be using Revit. 

 

You can tell them that VW is the only BIM software built for landscape architects, full stop. You can reference @aage.langedrag who has been using VW to deliver BIM models for large hospital projects in Norway, and stopped using Revit because it simply can't compete. He is also a Revit superuser and involved in setting the BIM standards for landscape projects in Norway, so to say that you need Revit is a joke. Here is a video from him on Open BIM and IFC for Landscape Architecure . Around 9:00min it goes into detail about BIM details for landscape, useful for you. 

 

You should absolutely not be losing work, and should not be forced to use Revit. BIM deliveries are in IFC formats, not Revit. We collaborate via IFC! That is literally the point of the file standard, where a common model is built from many different software packages (engineers are NOT working in Revit, and never will). 

You can search the Site Design forums for posts on working with IFC & BIM. As landscape architects, it is normal to work with internal origin (aka architect drawings always at 0,0) and world project coordinates but @loic.jourdan's post is worth referring to if you haven't done this. 

Otherwise, it is making sure you have attached the right IFC records to your materials/objects/trees&plants/site model. There is an Ifc SiteModel record, which you can use for the site model, and everything else is usually categorized using Ifc BuildingElementProxy.  This is because IFC standards have not been developed with landscape in mind, but this should change with upcoming standards to include things we use (e.g. trees)

 

 

 

[aage.langedrag]

Hi @Poot, Thanks for passing on my presentation. Completely agree with you that the current solution for landscape architects and BIM is via Vectorworks. As you will see in my presentation, much of the work I show was done in Autodesk Revit while we have moved the entire model over to Vectorworks and further built the model so that it contains all the information we need to build according to the model without the need for drawings. We have a few principle drawings which in the future can easily be replaced entirely with a model. Maybe I can update the presentation sometime and show completely how the model is now used for construction?

[Poot]

16 hours ago, aage.langedrag said:

 Maybe I can update the presentation sometime and show completely how the model is now used for construction?

That would probably help a lot of people into the future! 

 

They have done well with the courses/webinars on topics like GIS, but as mentioned, there isn't a whole lot specific to BIM.

[Anders Blomberg]

I'd love to see an updated presentation @aage.langedrag, especially now with IFC4.3 coming up. As a landscape architect in Sweden we do a lot of work in the detailed design stages and while there are some videos at the university that cover this I feel there is a lack of videos going in depth with more real-world issues with complex landscape modeling and coordination for large projects. Unfortunately IFC hasn't really taken off in Sweden but I hope we're moving in that direction.

 

I have a very similar experience that Vectorworks is the best solution for landscape architects currently. My experience with Revit is that while it is a great piece of mature software it does not cater for the needs of landscape architects. I think that the fact that there are multiple add-ons for Revit covering landscape work speaks for itself, Revit by itself simply isn't good enough at this.