Internal origin and geolocated cad file import/referencing

[DDD]

HI all,

 

I have a question regarding handling cad file with geolocation information. I do the following procedures: 

 

a. when I see the "georeferenced file" is auto checked, I go to the advanced setting:

 

 

 

 

b. I make sure the highlighted items are checked, then start referencing the dwg.

 

 

 

 

 

c. after importing/referencing, I turn on the geoimage and it looks good. The referenced drawing is on the corrected spot with correct user coordinates.  

 

 

 

 

 

d. However the drawing ends up being far away from the internal origin

 

 

 

Should I proceed with this or do something to fix the problem? I tried "center drawing on internal origin", but this will mess up the geolocation. Thanks in advance for your help!

[Tom W.]

48 minutes ago, DDD said:

HI all,

 

I have a question regarding handling cad file with geolocation information. I do the following procedures: 

 

a. when I see the "georeferenced file" is auto checked, I go to the advanced setting:

 

 

 

 

b. I make sure the highlighted items are checked, then start referencing the dwg.

 

 

 

 

 

c. after importing/referencing, I turn on the geoimage and it looks good. The referenced drawing is on the corrected spot with correct user coordinates.  

 

 

 

 

 

d. However the drawing ends up being far away from the internal origin

 

 

 

Should I proceed with this or do something to fix the problem? I tried "center drawing on internal origin", but this will mess up the geolocation. Thanks in advance for your help!

 

Try using the Geolocate Tool to reset the Internal Origin. I think you will need to run 'Set User Origin to match the Georeferencing coordinate system' afterwards (Tools > Origin > User Origin...).

[Poot]

Have you changed/altered the Internal or User Origin of your drawing? If you haven't, and it is 0,0 then georeferenced drawings/objects will be located at their proper cartesian coordinates (x,y) which are almost always pretty far away from 0,0 since they are real world locations. 0,0 will be the origin point for the coordinate system you are working in (since there are many)

 

As @Tom W. suggested, use the Geolocate tool to reset the User Origin close to your project (we often do this at a predefined point for the project for coordinating between disciplines). It is also important to have a 0,0 close to your project to avoid issues with 3d viewing/graphics (caused by harder math with big numbers based on Internal Origin coordinates).The Internal Origin will always refer to the origin of the coordinate system, and you can change between User/Internal Origin as you need.

 

Go into the menu Tools->Origin->User Origin  .  

 

If you need to import/export a drawing with your project origin, a 0,0 close to the site, then you keep the drawing centred on the User Origin. If you need to export to an engineer, you often change back to Internal Origin to put the project in its real-world coordinates.

 

[Ben Beaumont]

All Design Layers should be georeferenced to match the Document's CRS. 

Use the Geolocate Tool to position the Internal Origin in the vicinity of the site. There is a general 7km soft radius and 10km hard radius that you should work to. Generally the Internal Origin should be very close to the project geometry. 

[tip: (unless you have a specific project position/known setout point) set the User Origin to match the Georeferencing Coordinate System, then make a 1 km x 1km or 1 Mile x 1 Mile grid visible and snap to a grid intersection. That makes for nice whole figured Eastings and Northings for your Internal Origin position.]

The Geolocate Tool will preserve the cartesian location of your geometry by placing a User Origin in the original (distant) location of the Internal Origin. 

The User Origin is discretionary. Unless an Angle to True North is introduced, it conveniently aligns to the 'hidden' CRS cartesian grid and can assist to display Eastings and Northings by way of the rulers. We don't need a User Origin for georeferencing to work.* 

When importing a 'geo aware' dwg file, the check box simply aligns the source .dwg origin with the CRS cartesian grid origin (it ignores the User origin entirely). 

In the case of the original post, the Internal Origin would have still been coincident with the (distant) origin of the 'hidden' CRS grid. Hence the imported geometry appearing a long way from that point. 
*To export your geometry as a .dwg, you'll need to set the User Origin to match the Georeferencing Coordinate System. This is because the .dwg export will write the location of the geometry relative to the User Origin not the Internal Origin. So the resulting geometry - when opened in a different piece of software - will be distant to the origin, just as the geometry you received in the first place was. 

[gjw1980]

Hi there. This may not be exactly the same question and there may be other threads that better match but I couldn't see one.

 

I've inherited a couple of projects where a topographical survey doesn't seem to have been imported as a geolocated layer (maybe someone unchecked the 'this contains georefereced geometry or something, or someone moved the topographical survey data to another location for some reason). Since then, a large number of design layers and sheet layers have been created using the non-geolocated topo survey as a base and so none of our drawings are correctly located. The job is likely to be on site soon and the contractor may ask us for coordinates which will therefore be incorrect.

 

Is it possible to somehow move all of the design layers simultaneously to the right location whilst preserving all of the viewports / sheet layers?

 

I'm pretty new to georeferencing etc so if I've misunderstood or misdescribed something, apologies.

 

Help appreciated.

 

 

 

 

[Tom W.]

27 minutes ago, gjw1980 said:

Hi there. This may not be exactly the same question and there may be other threads that better match but I couldn't see one.

 

I've inherited a couple of projects where a topographical survey doesn't seem to have been imported as a geolocated layer (maybe someone unchecked the 'this contains georefereced geometry or something, or someone moved the topographical survey data to another location for some reason). Since then, a large number of design layers and sheet layers have been created using the non-geolocated topo survey as a base and so none of our drawings are correctly located. The job is likely to be on site soon and the contractor may ask us for coordinates which will therefore be incorrect.

 

Is it possible to somehow move all of the design layers simultaneously to the right location whilst preserving all of the viewports / sheet layers?

 

I'm pretty new to georeferencing etc so if I've misunderstood or misdescribed something, apologies.

 

Help appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

What version of VW are you using?

[gjw1980]

1 hour ago, Tom W. said:

 

What version of VW are you using?

2023, SP8

[Tom W.]

2 hours ago, gjw1980 said:

2023, SP8

 

In VW2025 there is the new Survey Point tool which makes what you want to do much easier. In VW2023 I think the way you'd need to do it is:

1. Set up the Document Georeferencing + enable Georeferencing for the layers.
2. Tools > Origin > User Origin... > Set User Origin to match the Georeferencing coordinate system.
3. Set the Internal Origin to a known coordinate point either using the Geolocate Tool or by entering the coordinates in the Document Georeferencing dialog.
4. Draw a big Circle which is centred on the point in your survey file that matches the known coordinate + make it large enough so it encompasses all of your geometry then run Tools > Origin > Centre Drawing on Internal Origin.
5. Run Set User Origin to match the Georeferencing coordinate system again.

Now the OIP should return the correct X/Y coordinates + the Stake Tool the correct E/N coordinates + if you open Geoimage you should see that the underlying globe is in the correct place relative to your survey data.

 

Needless to say try this out in a duplicate file.

[gjw1980]

On 12/2/2024 at 5:53 PM, Tom W. said:

 

In VW2025 there is the new Survey Point tool which makes what you want to do much easier. In VW2023 I think the way you'd need to do it is:

1. Set up the Document Georeferencing + enable Georeferencing for the layers.
2. Tools > Origin > User Origin... > Set User Origin to match the Georeferencing coordinate system.
3. Set the Internal Origin to a known coordinate point either using the Geolocate Tool or by entering the coordinates in the Document Georeferencing dialog.
4. Draw a big Circle which is centred on the point in your survey file that matches the known coordinate + make it large enough so it encompasses all of your geometry then run Tools > Origin > Centre Drawing on Internal Origin.
5. Run Set User Origin to match the Georeferencing coordinate system again.

Now the OIP should return the correct X/Y coordinates + the Stake Tool the correct E/N coordinates + if you open Geoimage you should see that the underlying globe is in the correct place relative to your survey data.

 

Needless to say try this out in a duplicate file.

Thank you!