Drawing List Interactive?

[Kevin Allen]

I use a  stock worksheet that comes with designer to create an index of drawings. The Worksheet pulls sheet titles and sheet numbers from Title Block Objects.

Can that be made interactive, so that a reader using a PDF file can click on the sheet number or the sheet title and be sent to the page?

[Mark Aceto]

i think so with hyperlinks:

 

https://app-help.vectorworks.net/2022/eng/VW2022_Guide/Text/Creating_hyperlinks.htm#TOC_Exporting_hyperlinks_to

[Kevin Allen]

I use the hyperlink tool to reference product specs, but that seems quite a process for a table of contents. Hoping for a setting...

[michaelk]

I have a plug-in object that makes a sheet index and I've thought about that.

 

I think you would need to create a symbol for every sheet layer.  It's possible.  Maybe?

[Kevin Allen]

1 minute ago, michaelk said:

I think you would need to create a symbol for every sheet layer.  It's possible.  Maybe?

 

well, the section viewport links to the drawing label object. Reference Markers can also link to Drawing Labels (although that is a process) ideally I would think the worksheet would link to the title block objects.

[Mark Aceto]

looks like the same workflow as in google sheets (pick activate sheet layer)

 

 

then add a back button to each plate

 

assuming the links are broken if the sheet layer names change but i'd love to be wrong about that

 

btw @JimWoodward is the hyperlink overlord

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Mark Aceto

[michaelk]

Hyperlinks have a mode to link directly to a sheet layer.  But the hyperlink object has to be a symbol.  

 

You can't use a worksheet script trick because once it's a pdf the worksheet can't execute.

 

Probably possible to script the creation and location of symbols that are hyperlink objects…

[Mark Aceto]

i'm plating up a small drawing set today and tomorrow, so this is my new assignment

[Mark Aceto]

btw i love that the documentation is from a decade ago

[trevorgooch]

@Mark Aceto Decade old documentation, and yet here we are.... did you have any luck?  

 

I have an idea about having both a hyperlinking TOC, and some kinda navigation block, so that in PDF form, it's more useful.  I keep publishing mini-plots, or small detail sheets, and the end consumer is dependent on dropbox and my clear naming to find the info that they need, which is sketchy at best.

 

[Mark Aceto]

34 minutes ago, trevorgooch said:

@Mark Aceto Decade old documentation, and yet here we are.... did you have any luck?  

 

I have an idea about having both a hyperlinking TOC, and some kinda navigation block, so that in PDF form, it's more useful.  I keep publishing mini-plots, or small detail sheets, and the end consumer is dependent on dropbox and my clear naming to find the info that they need, which is sketchy at best.

 

We did not. We ran into some logical challenges, and got stuck within the current constraints. However, I think we got the message across in the NYC user group meeting. @Kevin Allen would you agree?

 

That said, I've become a fan of the QR code on plots. Super easy for crew to hold their phones at your plot (or any screen with the code) to instantly download it to their devices. The code can link a specific file or a folder that contains multiple files. The latter is my preference. Totally different topic than TOC links but you might find it useful (if you haven't already).

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Mark Aceto

[Kevin Allen]

14 minutes ago, Mark Aceto said:

We did not. We ran into some logical challenges, and got stuck within the current constraints. However, I think we got the message across in the NYC user group meeting. @Kevin Allen would you agree?

 

 

I think so. QR codes have come a long way, but they are not a substitute for an interactive table of contents (ToC) aka Index of Drawings. In my mind, a QR code someplace is an opportunity for a client, a tradesperson, or a colleague to DL a set of drawings. An interactive ToC is a way for people to navigate within the set of drawings, whether that's in a PDF Viewer, VWX proper, or using VCS.

Two different things. Also the idea of generating QR codes for that kind of navigation is beyond maddening. 

[trevorgooch]

I can get into the QR codes to get plots into lots of ready hands.  I should play with that.

 

I think that there's some room for some linking in my Mini plots - I can imagine an overview page that links to each detail, and on each detail a link back.  Perhaps what I'm *really* trying to solve is making very granular detail drawings most effective in the hands of production leads who still have yet to get their heads around the overall show.

 

On an iPhone with a cracked screen.   With "cheaters" from cvs.  

 

I very much appreciated the NYC group meeting - I was coming off of a family crisis, and wasn't sure what I was walking into.  Now that things are a fair bit calmer at home and work, I'm itching for another meeting!

Edited December 15, 2022 by trevorgooch

[Mark Aceto]

6 minutes ago, trevorgooch said:

I think that there's some room for some linking in my Mini plots - I can imagine an overview page that links to each detail, and on each detail a link back.  Perhaps what I'm *really* trying to solve is making very granular detail drawings most effective in the hands of production leads who still have yet to get their heads around the overall show.

 

I think this can be accomplished a few different ways today. The first, with hyperlinks but, as Kevin said, it would be pretty maddening.

 

The other ways would be using smart markers and back referencing (to a plan or plot, so linking back to a drawing/sheet index might turn into a workaround):

 

 

 

[Kevin Allen]

Back referencing, ideally baked in. So if the ToC says sheet 4, the link should know to go to sheet 4, Even if that is sheet A-4 or sheet E-4, so, not just numeric.

[trevorgooch]

@Mark Aceto  I had conflated smart makers and hyperlinks into some terribly manual idea - that was completely incorrect.   This will address my immediate usability issue.  Thanks so much for taking the time to share the guidance!

 

The Drawing ToC is a separate, and clearly very important need for many of us.  I *need* to get my head around smart makers, add it to my tool kit, and put this set of drawings to bed.  I *want* to play test work arounds to the ToC.

 

Add it to the list of things to get to.. 

 

[Mark Aceto]

The Story of Vectorworks:

• One is a short term workaround
• The other is a long term wish

If you can't be with the one you love... 

 

BTW I live for Vectorhacks, workaroundflows, cheat codes... lots of smarties here in the forum and in the user groups.

If you can swing the west coast time zone, I would encourage you to add Santa Barbara to your user group list. That's where we attempted to crack Kevin's TOC idea. Los Angeles is another good one, especially if you're getting into scripting. You can sign up for email announcements here:

 

https://www3.vectorworks.net/community-group

[trevorgooch]

@Mark Aceto All of this has been very helpful - I can now present a document that uses poly bounded detail viewports, that link to sheets with specific circuiting details.  Struggling to get the back link to behave properly in the pdf, I simply added an overview thumbnail to the legend/key space, that links back to the appropriate sheet layer.  It was probably less work to make a generic "go home" link.

 

Hack-around, for sure.  Also, functional and repeatable, and a few steps in the direction of making more information in a drawing actually useable for the poor souls that actually have to build the show.  

 

Onwards and upwards, or just onwards!

 

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by trevorgooch
Added pictures.

[Kevin Allen]

1 hour ago, trevorgooch said:

Struggling to get the back link to behave properly in the pdf,

 

Maybe a 'back' button, returning to the ToC, where ever it is placed could be in the title block? As long as that does not further slow the title block objects. 

[trevorgooch]

9 minutes ago, Kevin Allen said:

 

Maybe a 'back' button, returning to the ToC, where ever it is placed could be in the title block? As long as that does not further slow the title block objects. 

Kevin, that's was a great idea!

 

I just did a quick test, and the link is lost when it's part of the total block.  If I find something less clumsy, I'll post it here. 

 

[Mark Aceto]

2 hours ago, trevorgooch said:

I just did a quick test, and the link is lost when it's part of the total block.  If I find something less clumsy, I'll post it here. 

 

Maybe just plop the back link on top of, or next to, the title block? Kind of like a North arrow, scale bar, etc. Just do a paste in place on each sheet layer. The hyperlink can also be a symbol, so you could get creative to make it easy to find, readable, pretty... 

[trevorgooch]

3 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

 

Maybe just plop the back link on top of, or next to, the title block? Kind of like a North arrow, scale bar, etc. Just do a paste in place on each sheet layer. The hyperlink can also be a symbol, so you could get creative to make it easy to find, readable, pretty... 

That's exactly what I did, between the body of the title block an a North arrow, drawn as a tiny overall plot.  

 

I did ultimately make back referencing work. I don't know why I expected the backlink to behave differently than the detail callout linking - the text of the reference is the clickable element, so the size and placement will determine how functional it is.  I'll have to chew on that for a bit, and see if I can come up with some clean and clear formatting.  

 

All of this to say, I'd still rather have some ToC / Navigation standard element.  In the mean time, this is worlds better than where I started a few days ago, and I've reached a place that I can hand off drawings to others.  Done is beautiful!

 

Thanks guys!

Edited December 19, 2022 by trevorgooch

[trevorgooch]

Well, here's a last gross idea: a worksheet ToC, and then, placed directly above a series of "invisible" hyper links.  The *invisible* piece can be improved.

 

It's pretty manual.  I used class control to keep them visible, until I was ready to hide them.  It functions well as a pdf.  I am certain that I would hate this at scale, but it can be made to work.   Maybe some clever scripting could do the work - generate the worksheet, and then generate the links.

 

Anyway, another idea. 

 

Hidden Links.pdf Hidden Links.vwx

[trevorgooch]

14 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

 

Maybe just plop the back link on top of, or next to, the title block? 

 

On 8/31/2022 at 7:00 PM, Kevin Allen said:

...ideally I would think the worksheet would link to the title block objects.

To summarize (for the next person looking at this in 10 years) the three things I have learned about navigation in sheet layers in PDF publishing.

• QR codes can make ad hoc pdf drawing distribution helpful  - though less useful for internal navigation.
• Detail and section viewports can have click linking back references, and those will link automatically, but you are limited to the label text of the reference, which may be less useful on tablets or phones.
• Hyperlinks are very flexible, and be presented as an invisible overlay.  A simple "home" button is very easy to setup and paste on every sheet.  However, they cannot be embedded into a title block or worksheet, and they require manual creation and update.

What's the answer for me?  I don't know, really.  The most native workflow is overview->detail/section and back reference.  Not a TOC, but native to vwx and reinforces the detail relationships. The immediate barrier to embracing it for me is creating some inventive Labels that I don't hate.

 

Maybe with some clever scripting, we can get an array of hyperlinks automatically pasted on top of a worksheet ToC.   I may play with this a bit.  I seems super clumsy, but maybe with a few laps, a workflow will reveal itself. 

 

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

 

 

 

[Kevin Allen]

16 minutes ago, trevorgooch said:

Maybe with some clever scripting, we can get an array of hyperlinks automatically pasted on top of a worksheet ToC.   I may play with this a bit.  I seems super clumsy, but maybe with a few laps, a workflow will reveal itself. 

 

 

Sorry. I do not want to have to work that hard. I also do not want a new feature, odds are that willet gummed up along the way.

The tech seems to exist in VWX already. The key is getting the tech into the worksheet WITHOUT having to create a new tool that only creates a ToC.

The reference marker, I might have the name wrong, does this. Place an arrow, point to something, link in the OIP to a viewport, move along. Move the viewport, change the sheet number, etc, the link updates.