AndiACD

Benson, Glad you liked it! hope NAG get's the gist . . . . . Mike, one Plane a la pre 2011, doesn't mean we can't have 3D planer 2D objects. Layer Plane, could display them either way, then the OIP Pulldown WOULD make sense. Choose to display the 2D profile flat, as was, or 3D without fill, as is now. 2D objects i imagine have a different composite to 3D extrudes, sweeps, lofts, solid add/subtracts, Nurbs etc. so if needed, a 2nd pulldown adjacent could give the option to select All or single planar/2D objects prior to selecting how you want them displayed and as if you select more than 1 object the OIP knows the count, the pulldown could offer 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc. objects to select, then we could all play the lottery game and see if we guessed correctly which objects VW would choose! What on earth would have been so hard to fulfill the present capabilities in one Plane? AND leave all the time wasting fuss on the porch! You'd still have the Ground/WorkingPlane or Layer Plane buttons in the Palette and Toolbar, X,Y&Z would always be X,Y&Z for coords and the 2D Move tool X would move left and right and Y up and down so there'd be no need to stand on your head to make sure you'd worked out which way something is going to move before you hit "OK"! And as always, i STILL want all the usual Tools that still don't always work, to be MADE to work properly ALL of the time first before any "Major Rethinks" are put into action. But in the meantime allow 2D's to show up in one Plane, as 3D or 2D, in a simple single choice. Legacy? Fresh rewrite should solve that . . . . . Yes i know, i'm ranting again! Sorry. Oh! And despite the ditty(Sorry Mr. Tolkein) i still side with the Fellowship bunch, not the Nasties.

It shouldn't be this complex. So far i can't find anyone else that has a similar setup. to quote a well used classic. "One Plane to rule them all, One Plane to find them, One Plane to work them all and on the CADscreen bind them," rather than the dark lords current way Sorry! Couldn't Resist

Vincent, i have found that editing a 2D object can only be done with the Reshape tool in Screen. OK i get this, but the problem is once in Layer, sometimes the object will not revert to the Classic 2D flattie we all remember in 2009, so you can't edit it. So far this only happens in Extruded, Lofted, Swept or any of the other 3D from 2D situations etc, but, it happens. No amount of trying to switch Planes in the OIP, Tool Bar or any other pulldown you can dream up solves it. Maybe it's just old files . . . . . . i know that if you have "show other objects" selected it gives you the idea that you are working in the View the object was created in, but it does not change the fact that the New Planes are unnecessary and consume heaps of time. Yes i have learned to work with them, And an enormous "THANK YOU" goes to Mike Oz for clearing up a lot of the niggles, but, it doesn't mean they're of any use. As i have stated before, computers/software are supposed to make things easier, not more complicated. Can't wait to see what sort of catastrophe will erupt when VW has to start dealing with the imminent release of OSX Lion. i have a feeling NV will be obliged to resign itself to a Fresh Start, but my fear is they'll just drop Mac support altogether. i know it will run, but considering the problems that 2011 is going through, i'm scared years of work(old files) will become inaccessible. Like Jeff, i had to transfer loads of Symbols and objects from a file that was considered "Corrupt" (not blank like his) one layer at a time. The "Import Design Layers" in the Layer dialogue didn't work either, and gave the same "Corrupt" excuse. Only solution was to recreate all of the layers one at a time in a new file, then Copy from the Bad file and Paste into the new one. Fortunately it solved the problem, but it's not the sort of hassle you expect from a new release/upgrade and wasting 2 to 3 hours to do it is not an uplifting experience. The original file still works fine in the version it was created in. If i hadn't already made numerous mods i could have just have reopened it from v2009 then v2010, but there's still the "Sword of Damocles" hanging above that it might just happen again. Now i have to consider that i may need to follow the same procedure with every pre 2011 file i wish to work on just to avoid "Corrupt File" warnings. i want to be able to sing the praises of VW, i've invested too many years into it not to, but in order to do that, problems that have been plaguing it that have had requests from users to be resolved over and over and over again that still haven't been looked at must be addressed instead of adding yet more unnecessary "Election Pole Boosters". Stabilizing VW and getting everything to work flawlessly first, then see if it needs novel ways of working the "New Planes" gimmick, then we can give it a try. And if you need a pointer as to what VW should be capable of just take a look, Check this?? i selected an interior design movie (and it's mainly for the render aspect) so you aren't convinced that i'm pushing an Engineering product, but it does that too and all as VW should have been capable of since VW v10 and it manages it all without needing "Multiple Plane Disciplines". If the Push\Pull Tool could me made to work on as many levels as "SC" does and include Tapers, Fillets, Chamfers, Sweeps and any of the other extrude tools that struggle at present, then VW may return to being the Great product it used to be. "SC" has all of the "Wall Joining" disputes covered, the "Roof/Wall Fit" trained, in fact every problem that has been cause for debate here on the forum, are as smooth as silk. i'm not saying it won't suffer somewhere but when a "Shell Tool" can do it to absolutely any profile it really does make you wonder how much unnecessary baggage is still being carried around in the VW "U Haul It" trailer. i love VW when it works, trouble is, it now struggles with the simplest of actions and even if transferring components of an old file into a new file helps, it shouldn't be that complicated.

Toooooooooo right!

Sad state of affairs, i know . . . .

Nice one Kaare, once they get everything else that still doesn't work, back on track, i could support this one whole heartedly.

If everything was just reverted to "ONE" plane, none of these problems would happen, then the only choice necessary would be to decide if you wanted to see the 2D object you have just created as the old 2D object or as a 3D profile in 3D space which could be a button dedicated to this and only this connected to the object. Yes i know that after a fashion it's already there but it's the others that are a pain. Combine the "New Abilities" of the Screen Plane showing 2D objects in 3D views, Combine the Ability to turn a 2D object into a Working Plane(which i love), Combine the Ability of 2D profiles created in a Front Elevation or Left Elevation as the "Old Fashioned" 2D objects(that stay where you put them and don't need to be rotated in order to view and edit them in "Top/Plan" once they've been extruded or swept or lofted), but make them all work in "ONE" and ONLY "ONE' Plane. The Working Plane as was. But not "Tied" to that one Plane(Top/Plan) . . . . . . . i've tried, i really have made an effort to make use of what's on offer, but Let's face it, the Extra "Superfluous" Planes can do some pretty dandy little tricks, but even when they don't cause Crashes and can read a complete old file from 2009 or 2010 without loosing half the contents or complaining that the file is corrupt, there really is nothing so remarkable that they have brought to the table that couldn't be done in half the time in v2009/2010. "Ditch 'em!!"

I found this too. Everything seem to get the "BoundingBox" treatment even if selection hint show up as just the contours. Fix it please guys.

Like i said, i keep pressing the button. Pointless, but old habits . . . . . .

Unfortunately John, even if you had the "Readies" for a new PC i think you might be disappointed. VW still hasn't learned to work with Multi-Processor, Multi-Threaded current Hardware Tech, as such my old G5 Mac is almost as quick as my new Mac Pro when running VW and that is without full render. i dread to think what that might take in RW. C4D is already Hardware Tech savvy so maybe Grant can tell us if it does make a noticeable difference.

Hi Adam, Your best bet might be to have a word with one of the crew at Computers Unlimited, Martyn Horne, Bill Allen or Alan Wright. If they can't help they may be able to point you in the direction of someone that can. You might try a search for VW UK too. There are several distributor/training facilities that may also be able to help with PC/VW problems.

With you there Edward, something REALLY needs to be done about passing files though different versions of VW without it always complaining or warning of the "Origin" of the file. i know where it came from, "Just Open It!"

This one's really got my curiosity. Like many seem to have been users since MiniCAD, i too have stuck with Click-Drag. Never even bothered to assess the other option, but i think it's time to give it a go. My right index has fallen foul to holding for too many years. Bruce, i have the same Wacom set up, and it just feels right, so we'll see if switching it off brings a different result for me. i hate excessive clicks too, that's why i love shortcuts. i think my problem will be remembering to let go of the button . . . .

Whilst i do appreciate all the efforts Mike has put into this thread and the above list helps outline NV's rules for the use of the "Planes", we are still a long way off from coming close to the capabilities and practicality once known and loved in working with VW. i've been conspicuous by my absence while trying to convince myself that it should be possible to adapt to the ethics of working with what you have available, but to say that it is difficult to achieve a fraction of what could be achieved with bug ridden predecessors of 2011 would be an understatement. Although it is possible to create an object in situe, editing at a later date brings on too many anomalies and where as before profiles could be easily replaced with new ones the lack of support for all tools in every "Plane Instance" is absurd and no amount of switching will solve them. i've never had so many "The object you have tried to create cannot be computed . . . .? dialogues, even after VW was quite comfortable with it after 1st build but wouldn't let me check profiles without complaining. Just hope the next SP is an improvement. But i still want an "Off Switch"!

i've never bothered with the hole tool coz of the trouble it caused, i just extrude a circle then do a Solid Subtract. A lot of fuss maybe, but if you draw your 2D circle in the view you wish the hole in, then there is no hassle of realignment, it's always where you want it. Do the same for threaded holes. Use a screw!

Tom, you may be interested in this thread. Support for full-screen feature in Mac OS X Lion Covers some of the possibilities of the forthcoming "Lion" OSX release. It should get you closer to your request, depending on how NNA deal with it in VW of course. i'm really not looking forward to it, but i have an open mind even if i prefer what we have regarding the Mac's interface. Most of them are adjustable too, bottom right corner allows you to resize them to fit your needs, all except the WP Palette. You will however find that the Palettes are "Sticky", and if you grab the bar, where the traffic lights are on each Palette and drag one close to another they pull together. Not what you want but should stop you clicking on the desktop. . . . . . . . Andi

OK, i could live with that as long as there IS an option. But there are already in Snow Leopard, things that have been just left out from Leopard that, though new and REALLY useful have just been dropped already and i'm wondering how many more good things are going to vanish with the advent of Lion. i'm all for progress, but not at the cost of practicality. i'm often worried that now Windows has made such a big effort to be as much like Macs with W7 as they possibly can, i would be devastated if Apple started making the OSX more and more like the old Windows that PC's have just escaped from.

Or was it you Christiaan . . . . . . ?

i was hoping to appeal to your sense of humour Christiaan, no intent to offend, but 10, 11, and subsequently 12 will only run on 10.6 intel Macs. . . . If you had already suffered the niggles that the latest releases have thrown into the bucket, you'd understand. As for the unified interface, Chris, the very aspect of OSX that i still love is that notes and images i have sourced in other Applications i can still make use of without going back and forth between them, being able to read them in the background. VW adopting this without the option to use the present format would be just New Paint slowing the work process even more than the new "Planes" iteration in 2011 already does. A UI for VW would need an "Off Switch" for that too. i would prefer it if NV got the Tools that have been requested for years to function without failure in the last 3 or 4 releases first and some that have adopted new problems since 2009. Then if the stability and any other problems were addressed, a look at tarting up the appearance with New Paint might be acceptable. Add/Subtract Solids, all of the Extrusion Tools, Loft, Sweep, Extract, even Push/Pull needs help(Protrusion? Tool as was), Chamfer, Fillet, EAP, the list goes on . . . . . . DWorks, i think it was,(forgive me if i errr. may have been Mike Oz) mentioned that NV are rumoured to have people working somewhere in a back room on a ground up rebuild of VW. Now, if that's true and clears up all the long awaited improvements to old unhealed injuries afflicting it for far too long, then i might be happy to deal with a New Paint Job in the form of a UI, but, "Everything" and i mean "Everything", must first work as you expect it to work, without each and every procedure needing a never ending list of possible workarounds that might get the results that you want from one Tool or another. i still have to keep going back to 2009 to get certain things done that it just can't do in 2010(not so bad) and 2011 with out taking days and days for a 20 minute job and without Crashing. One thing at a time, please guys and in the right order.

So, you're after an expensive table mat for coffee time, right? Give Nemets a chance to get what we've got now, right first please Christiaan. More paint is not really what we need . . . . is it?

Don't worry Bruce, the problems do not dissipate or disappear if you work in a new file. Although Restarting does make a modecom of difference for about 5 minutes. Even total redraws don't seem to improve matters. Yes the 2D on 3D Plane is snazzy but that's all. the whole thing needs a few more years of R&D before it will be ready for release onto VW's unsuspecting users.

Thanx guys for all the updates. Maybe a trip to the Seminar on 8th June will help me make up my mind . . . . . See you on the other side . . . . .

Sorry if i have given the wrong impression Guy, i've only toyed with SW. For me it's an enormous step to drop VW, but the fact that i can no longer open old files without having to redraw them with every upgrade that arrives, i think it may finally be on the cards. i just wanted to know how difficult the transition had been and if you had any of troubles that afflict every day with VW . . . . Fillets, Chamfers, Extrudes, EAP, Lofts etc. etc. Hangs, Crashes, Slow Downs, Jagged OpenGL, . . . . . .

And the SW package? i know there are many with various inclusion and exclusions (bit like C4D) from basic to the "World Domination" version . . . . .

Guy, using Boot Camp or a third party translator? Which v of Solidworks?