Christiaan

I guess the thing for us is that, after utilising 3D on one large job, we have given up on the 2D+3D method, because I found that the parametric objects were too limiting. It's not so much that they don't do everything possible under the sun but that they either have small bugs or small limitations that are deal-breakers. Once you hit a bug or limitation that requires you to destroy the parametric nature of the object there becomes no point in using it, apart from as a design tool. We'll use the stair tool, for instance, as a check to make sure we're calculating our stairs correctly but most of the stairs we do in multi-storey buildings simply can't be created with the stair PIO. The window PIO is another example, with the sill bugs, and not only in 3D. When I last used it, it couldn't even represent a sill in 2D correctly either. I think a lot of these problems stem from these PIOs starting their lives designed for the McMansion market. If NNA came at it from a different perspective (i.e. a global market of diverse architecture) I don't think we'd have all these limitations.

It fascinates me how diametric the opinions are on this upgrade. I've never had it so easy convincing the purse strings holders that we should upgrade than with v13. On top of that is the stability and lack of bugs in the first release. You can argue all you like about whether the changes warrant the label of "major release" but to me that entirely misses the point. The way I look at it is, are there enough changes and are they good enough to warrant remunerating NNA with an upgrade fee. To me the answer is a resounding yes. I've estimated that for the cost of upgrading v13 will offer payback in a month. A month!! That, as some kids would say, is sick.

Heh, nice theme Jon. Gonna keep you going for a while.

Yeah, I like the graphic too. It's good when people take the time to make themselves understood.

It is a lot easier to manage, yes, I agree. But I'd still argue that it's a design oversight not have these view toggles easily accessible by default (my favourite being in the contextual menu)

Thanks Chris. Yup, huge oversight if you ask me, especially when you consider this thread: http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=74586 Thankfully they're easy to add to the contextual menu. but they really should be far easier to access by default.

This has been the impression I've been getting, which is great because I want to roll it out office-wide well before Christmas (because I'm going home to NZ for a 7 week holiday ) It's no mean feat to achieve this sort of stability. It's appreciated a lot.

I don't think you read a word I wrote did you.

There ya go, now you're getting the hang of it. By the way, I hate jargon too. It causes far more confusion than the time it saves. Sometimes, especially in professional industries, you can even put it down to people not actually wanting outsiders to understand. One that really makes me laugh is when people actually say out loud A S A P, instead of "as soon as possible". With regard to terms, there's no way around that. You just to get down and dirty with reference manuals and interface diagrams, etc.

Yes, I've noticed that myself (received copy the other day).

Just bumping my wish for Maxwell support.

How about converting v12 files. Is this going well for people?

Thanks Richard.

There's often no one way to work in VectorWorks, which can be both a burden and a saviour, but in answer to your queries, yes elevations will generally have their own Layer. If you're drawing it in 2D it'll be on its own Design Layer (in which case you might decide to draw all elevations on the one Design Layer). If it's derived from your model it will be a Section Viewport on a Sheet Layer (and you might decide to put all your elevations on this Sheet Layer). We tend to do buildings of a size that take up one A1 sheet per elevation. But even if they were smaller we would tend to create each one in 2D on a Design Layer of its own and then create Viewports to present them on a Sheet Layer in whichever way is most appropriate. For details, again, there are many ways to organise them. Because we have multiple people working a on a project the first thing we do is create another file so someone can be working on details while others are working on something else. We Workgroup Reference the sections and plans into this new file, increase the scale to 1:10 and then actually trace over parts of the sections and plans to produce the details. Then we create Viewports of each detail. This allows us to easily co-ordinate our details with our sections while keeping them separate but not having to copy and paste. VectorWorks can have a steep learning curve, almost purely, I think, because of its flexibility. Once you've grasped the principles though (and can keep office standards under hand) you'll be thankful of this aspect nearly every day.

Hope RAL colours will be included with that update.

The previous one wasn't a wall, but this one is. (the previous one is a hatch assigned to a polygon via the Attributes palette)

Screenshot of greyed out hatch attached.

Anyone want to comment on this one? I'm actually only interested in the Mac version too. Have any Mac users experienced the slow down some Windows users are experiencing?

I don't understand why NNA doesn't support all versions going right back. Bloat maybe? Well, at the conference it London it was a suggested to the engineers that maybe there should be a standalone app to convert all previous versions. The way around that might be to run virtualisation software.

We use our own custom title block and revision data block so we can use whatever characters we like.

If v13 is not compatible with Leopard I'll eat my cat. As for your computer, I think you only just scrape in on Apple's list of officially supported computers.

Richard, you couldn't post some screenshots somewhere could you?

No, as I said above, the hatches are assigned using the Attributes palette.

No, that's not it. My hatches are assigned via the Attributes palette. I'll post a screen shot when I'm back at work in the morning. I suspect I know why you're unable to replicate the behaviour though. The layer I was managing to show greyed out hatches was a workgroup reference.

Was just reading Daring Fireball: http://daringfireball.net/linked/2007/october#mon-01-drawit "New version of Pieter Omvlee?s $49 drawing/illustration app. Looks interesting ? the UI emphasis is on keeping everything in a single window." http://getdrawit.com/