VWL 11.5 DTM Miscellaneous Errors 20,1 20,2

[IanH]

I have tried to play around with DTM and I am getting Miscelleanous errors (20,1) and (20,2) depending on what I do.

I have reproduced it with the most basic of setups.

Started VWL 11.5.1, new file. Ran document setup at 1:50.

On design layer-1 I created 5 3-d loci points, 4 on rough square, 5th in center. Z values were 0 for bottom 2, 1.0 for top 2, 5 for center. ie a lop sided pyramid.

Ran AEC/Site model using defaults excpet I did choose show flow arrows and show labels in properties. The minor contour value was something like 0.03 - pretty useless but I stuck with it.

Created DTM on Mod-site-civi. Got lots of contour lines due to minor contour value.

Tried to rerun DTM using different values for minor contour.

Everything that I try with DTM will give either a Miscelleanous errors 20,1 or 20,2. ie filter or check 3d polygons etc etc.

Basically, my file is useless as far as DTM is concerned. Ok, so its only a test file, but if this was a real file with lots of time and effort, all that effort will have been lost.

I was going to be playing around with pads and fences, but I have falled at the first hurdle.

No satisfactory responses to the 5 posts that I found in the forum:

http://techboard.nemetschek.net/cgi/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=004104

http://techboard.nemetschek.net/cgi/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=001654

http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000313

http://techboard.nemetschek.net/cgi/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000253

http://techboard.nemetschek.net/cgi/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000231

The meaning of these miscellaneous errors seem to be top secret and all of the work arounds that people have suggest have simply resulted in the same old miscellaneous errors. Its not as if a 5 object model is particularly complex.

Any further suggestions please?

Thanks

Ian

[ 12-17-2005, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: IanH ]

[Robert Anderson]

Ian, what are your units?

[IanH]

Sorry, that was an oversight on my part. I normally work in mm but I did not specify anything when I did the test above so whatever the default is after running only document setup - inches probably. I can recheck for sure when I next turn on the machine.

My biggest concern is that once the error occurs, my model is trashed so I need to know how to recover. I save a backup version everytime a run a DTM. I have tried deleting the DTM but that does not work. Its almost if that once the error occurs, the file is trashed and the whole session is also affected until you stop/start VWL. Maybe some global variables get upset and are not reset until VWL restarts.

Thanks

Ian

[islandmon]

IanH ... do not dispair. The DTM is very forgiving if not a bit peculiar. Those errors are easily by-passed.. please search these boards for past posts regarding DTM Errors & Procedures, etc.

Remember 2 important things ... first DTM Procedure requires the creation of invisible temp file ( which can generate modified nuisance errors ) ...2nd Symbol>Site Model Folder>Existing DTM and Proposed DTM are created and modifiable via symbols. Trashing either or both requires regeneration of the symbols via AEC>DTM. The original DTM Datum stored with the Layer container is NEVER modified ... but within the DTM Site symbol the Layer/ Page origin is shifted based on the center of the mass of DTM Datum ( this occurs in all versions prior to v12)

[IanH]

Hi

My default settings were in meters.

I have just recreated the issue as follows.

Start PC. Start VWL 11.5.1. Fresh clean file.

File/Setupo/Document setup :

Layer scale at 1:50, all layers. Confirm units as meters.

Using 3d loci, create lop sided pyramid on design layer 1. Points (X,Y,Z meters) in order of creation at (-4.35, 4.95, 1.00), (2.15, 4.95, 1.00), (2.15, -1.65, 0.50), (-4.35, -1.65, 0.50) and (-.95, 1.70, 5.00).

Ran AEC/Site model/Create new site model:

Layer Mod-Site-Civil. In properties, I kept defaults (minor contour interval was 0.03) and selected show flow arrows under 2d display setting.

DTM was created, minor contour intervals were too small.

Reran AEC/Site model/Create new site model:

Kept original values except under properties I selected minor contour value as 0.5.

A miscellaneous error has occurred (20,2).

I was able to partially recover by deleting both the DTM and the DTM symbol and the Mod-Site-Civil layer and rerun the DTM. I was able to change the min area.

However, subsequently, the DTM had failed and even deleting the DTM, symbols and layer results in Miscellaneous error (20,1). In the process, Mod-Site-Civil gets created but no DTM. Filter or check 3d polygons also gives error 20,1.

Basically, the model is trashed and cannot be recovered by the means found in searching the posts or those suggested above.

Maybe someone could spend 5 minutes and see if the problem can be recreated.

Thanks

Ian

[islandmon]

Multiple 3D Loci cannot occupy the same coordinate location.

The error is resolution dependent, ie. If you're working in 0.001

space but have contours set to 0.0001 grid then crossing will be ignored but if the contours are set to 0.01 problems occur.

In the example a declaration of DTM Datum points : ( -4.35,4.95,1.00 ) & ( -4.35,-1.65,0.50 )

This is an illegal stacking of Z values on the X axis and will generate an error because there is no 'room' for a contour interval to exist between the Null X space. Placement of 2D Contour intervals is dependent on the critical prroximity of Datum XY values. Therefore, when declaring a Datum use an XY grid spacing which complements the contour interval to avoid stacking errors . Limit of one Z value for each XY crossing.

[IanH]

Hi

Thanks for taking the time and apologies for not getting back sooner.

I am not sure if I understand your explanation but am happy to accept 'driver error'.

Not sure what 0.0001 grid is - sorry im a garden design student using the student edition and documentation is poor unless you are using it as a technical reference - I wish it came with a book to read. My grids are snap:0.0001249999 reference:0.0005000002 both symmetrical - normally this would be 0.00/0.00 if working in cm accuracy - not sure if this sounds right to me as I did not pay much attention to it when setting up the model.

I am working in meters and it does not seem unreasonable to me to build a pyramid over 5m (15ft) square with a height of 4m and expect to see contours at 0.5m vertical increments - or am I misunderstanding how the site model is working?

However, I think what you are saying is that there is no room to fit contours. If I use the default minor contour interval of 0.003 then it works fine - changing to 0.5 I get the error. However, if I start fresh and I create minor contour interval at 0.5 then it works. In this case, I cannot revert back to 0.003 without getting the miscellaneous errors.

From what you are saying, I would expect the error to be generated when trying to build an illegal DTM but working when the values are legal. What appears to be happening is that I can create a DTM on the first attempt (be it 0.5 or 0.003 minor interval) and from then on being unable to use the site model functionality ever again in that file even when deleting the DTM and site model symbols for that DTM.

Still as confused but willing to put it down to user error.

[ 12-30-2005, 04:55 AM: Message edited by: IanH ]

[islandmon]

Not to worry :

1) Trash >Resource Browser>Symbol>Site Model Folder

2) Quit & Re-launch VW

3) AEC>Site Model> create 'Existing' and then Create 'Proposed' with the new units , etc.

VW creates an invisible .temp file which does not update properly when major changes are made to the Datum. Starting the DTM Procedure from scratch resolves the confusion.

[IanH]

Thankyou