OS render time variations

[arollisson]

Hello

 

I had some unusual issues (speed/crashing) while rendering on a 2017 Macbook Pro using Final Shaded Polygons - this style is not a necessity for my work - but it showed a flaw in my computer. After this I gave the same file to my boss who uses a high spec iMac, his results were similar. I moved on to an Alienware laptop and it gave much more satisfactory results. I don't know enough about the software or how it utilises the hardware to make any informed decisions, so I continued the tests using a 6 year old HP Laptop and then a 1 year old Surface Pro. All three Windows Machines gave good results whereas the two Macs struggled through. 

I have attached a spread sheet showing the PC type, CPU, GPU, Ram and OS hoping that someone out there can explain why there is such a wild variance between the software on the OS's, as a company we are quite invested in Macs and it is disappointing to see a $500 windows machine vastly outperform a $9000 Mac. 

 

Thanks, 

 

Andrew

VWX Hardware Comparison.xlsx

[PVA - Admin]

These render times are from rendering directly on the design layer or testing the render times of the same viewport?

[Kevin McAllister]

Those are big differences. I don't believe the Final Shaded Polygon render mode uses the Renderworks engine so this would be a problem specific to VW. I'd be curious to confirm if switching to a Renderworks mode makes things more comparable. Jim's question about design layer vs. sheet layer viewport is also a good one.

 

I would encourage you to bug submit the file if Jim doesn't ask for it.

 

Kevin

 

[zoomer]

I sometimes also use the Final Shaded Mode for Elevations in Viewport.

 

Also I think that it is one of the oldest, legacy, single threaded only,

non optimized, most forgotten render modes, for me it was one of the

fastest Viewport Renderings methods.

I didn't notice any problems at that time on Mac.

Edited May 23, 2018 by zoomer

[PVA - Admin]

I hadn't noticed that it was Final Shaded Polygons, apologies. That render mode hasn't been updated for some time and no, I do not think it is even considered part of Renderworks when it comes to core usage.

[arollisson]

7 hours ago, zoomer said:

I sometimes also use the Final Shaded Mode for Elevations in Viewport.

 

Also I think that it is one of the oldest, legacy, single threaded only,

non optimized, most forgotten render modes, for me it was one of the

fastest Viewport Renderings methods.

I didn't notice any problems at that time on Mac.

Its just a personal preference to use this style - it suits the conceptual feel I am trying to convey. And I hadn't noticed an issue until recently. 

[arollisson]

7 hours ago, JimW said:

I hadn't noticed that it was Final Shaded Polygons, apologies. That render mode hasn't been updated for some time and no, I do not think it is even considered part of Renderworks when it comes to core usage.

Hi Jim

 

Apologies for the barrage of questions, I am trying to learn as much as possible. 

 

It was the render times of the same viewport, I tried to be as scientific as possible by giving the same environment to each machine.

Can you explain what you mean by core usage? Does this mean CPU usage? I was told yesterday that some of the render styles utilise the CPU and some the GPU - is that correct? Is there a reference as to which uses which?

 

I would like to better understand the software vs hardware performance issues - as mentioned a $500 laptop vs a $9000 desktop should be a no brainer -  everything points to the OSX version of the software not utilising the Apple hardware properly, even if this is only on one render style, does that mean other elements of the software may also be effected and as such better suited to Windows OS? 

 

Thanks

[Kevin McAllister]

3 hours ago, arollisson said:

It was the render times of the same viewport, I tried to be as scientific as possible by giving the same environment to each machine.

Can you explain what you mean by core usage? Does this mean CPU usage? I was told yesterday that some of the render styles utilise the CPU and some the GPU - is that correct? Is there a reference as to which uses which?

 

Any Renderworks mode uses the CPU and benefits from multiple cores. Other rendering modes that have been modernized use the GPU (OpenGL for example). It seems from this thread that old render modes may be single core if they are not updated to use the GPU. I think the one caveat is the math calculations for geometry, which I believe are still single core in all scenarios. Jim would be able to provide more details.

 

3 hours ago, arollisson said:

I would like to better understand the software vs hardware performance issues - as mentioned a $500 laptop vs a $9000 desktop should be a no brainer -  everything points to the OSX version of the software not utilising the Apple hardware properly, even if this is only on one render style, does that mean other elements of the software may also be effected and as such better suited to Windows OS? 

 

I would be curious about this. It seems to me this is a bug. My understanding is that similarly spec'd systems should perform about the same, regardless of platform.

 

Kevin

 

[zoomer]

13 hours ago, arollisson said:

Its just a personal preference to use this style - it suits the conceptual feel I am trying to convey. And I hadn't noticed an issue until recently. 

 

Yes, I also used it for its appearance as for my Elevations it came closest to

the Top Plan View Floor Plans.

 

But I am aware that is an old forgotten legacy mode that may need some

extra love from todays point of view.

So I didn't expect much from it but my test showed that there was no slow down

over other modes and I kept it.

 

So it may be a new Bug in Final Shaded Polygons since VW 2018,

or an incompatibility with your special project on that special machine and OS.

 

GPU is used in VW in OpenGL Mode only, beside other display and UI things

(Plus the new simple Hidden Line Mode in Viewport direct editing mode and

maybe Wireframe in some parts)

All RW Render Modes are CPU only but are multi-threaded and make use of

all CPU cores or virtual cores.

 

All other (old) Render Modes should be CPU only and still mostly single-threaded.

So for Final Shaded Polygons, a CPU with high single core clock speed (turbo boost)

with fast RAM and I/O should be the fastest.

(No mater how many cores the CPU has or how strong your GPU)

 

And normally "hi spec iMacs" have a Intel 7700K or similar which have about the fastest

single core speeds available.

(Faster than the expensive XEONs in the iMac Pro)

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by zoomer