Classes and Layers

[stan61449]

I suppose some of my hours of frustration are going to show through here but I just can't help it.

To exactly what paradigm was this software designed? I have spent hours reading the book, the help, and this board. NO, I didn't read the whole book. During the process I have been trying to get business done. Well now I'm ready nearly ready to print out all my sheets. Well guess what? I have to go through and setup each and every sheet to have it print correctly. So maybe I'm not using the product correctly. Or maybe the product isn't correct. Which kind of leads me to my rhetorical question. (Rhetorical because I don't expect anyone to actually have the real answer.) What kind of paradigm was used during the creation of this software? Version 10.5.1 doesn't uses classes and layers. OK. What ever happened to the concept of a real physical drawing sheet? When I setup a particular sheet through the use of classes and layers and of course the task manager, why can't I just print out those darned sheets? The real answer is probably that someone either steeped in Vectorease or Programese was calling the shots.

When software is written, it HAS to adhere to some real physical model of the world or it presents a steep learning curve. After months of use, I still have to futze to print a sheet. So what kind of paradigm is that????????????

Stan

(and yes you can call me)

[stan61449]

Oops. I didn't mean to say that 10.5.1 doesn't use layers and classes. I doesn't use viewports as in v.11. Crazy stuff this 10.5.1. For instance I used the roof generator. Do something else. Go back to print it. No roof. Go back to the task manager. NO ROOF. Hand futzing to bring it back and print it out. How exactly does that correspond to paper and pencil? And please don't tell me anything about it's a technical problem the programmers fixed this way. Been there, done that. I've run shops with hundreds of programmers. I know different.

[stan61449]

One more time back to the well. I just read the FAQ from Katie (pat her on the back) on V11 and it looks like a lot of my frustrations have been addressed. It finally starts to make sense. How old did you say this product is? 6 months?

[stmlandplan]

Stan, have you dealt much with Setup standard VIewports, Classes and Layers and then trying to use Task Manager after importing a DXF/DWG file? I can't seem to establish a base data layer displaying infomation and then being able to use Task Manager.

[Petri]

quote:

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Originally posted by stan61449:

How exactly does that correspond to paper and pencil?

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It doesn't and it shouldn't. VW is not a drafting program nor can it read your mind. No roof, huh? Well, if I create a roof that is in a pre-existing class, it is or is not visible on sheets depending on the visibility settings. If I create a new class for the roof, how is the program supposed to know in which drawings it shoud be shown? I generate even tens of drawings from a single VW model and I do not expect VW to know how each if them is put together in terms of visible classes.

[stan61449]

YES.....it should have a paradigm upon which it is built. Speaking as a professional software engineer and more, EVERY good piece of software follows a paradigm. The truely best software is nearly intuitive and doesn't require a large learning curve. THE best paradigm for a drafting program comes from it's origins....paper and pencil. Yes, it is capable of so much more but the interface still has to have a basis, a paradigm upon which it is based. I currently have three different drafting programs and all of them have their unique strengths and weaknesses. VW has a very confusing approach to layers, objects, viewports and the task manager. Not at all intuitive and apparently without paradigm.

[mike m oz]

VECTORWORKS PARADIGMS

VW allows the user to choose how they want to work. For example:

Paradigm 1: Building

- Layers as stories of a building

- Classes as elements (or components) of the building

Paradigm 2: Drawings

- Layers as separate drawings

- Classes as different drawing elements (line weight, colour and type + fill type and colour)

Paradigm 3: AutoCAD like

- Layers as separate drawings

- Classes as AutoCAD layers (with appropriate line colours and weights)

Paradigm 4: Model generating Views

- Layers as different views of an object (1 model layer with linked layers providing different views of this model such as a plans elevations and isometrics)

- Classes as different model elements each with their own graphic attributes (including textures)

There are other permutations you can choose as well - it is up to you to choose what will best achieve your purpose. It is usually best to think about this beforehand and determine which strategy will be best for the particular context.

VW11 with its ViewPorts has added another way of viewing and presenting the information from your drawings, but you can still use the 'old ways' of user Saved Sheets and Layer Link Models if you wish.

SETUP ROUTINES

Provide predetermined way of organising your work, but you need to understand what is happening to be able to use them effectively.

TASK MANAGER

I don't know of anybody who actually uses this. Good idea, but in practice too slow, too cumbersome and too confusing.

You are better of understanding what you are doing and doing it yourself. This gives you control and the flexibility to organise things the way you want and need to.

ROOF

Unless you say otherwise the roof is created by default in a new layer called Roof - this may well be the reason it dissapears on you. The other possibility as Petri alluded to is its class and the visibility of that class.