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Nuno Antunes

Marionette - Duplicate and Copy Paste Error

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Dear all, we are starting on Marionette, and we believe Marionette Objects could be very powerful improving our work flow.

However we are struggling with (what we believe) a simple problem.

 

DUPLICATE Exemple 1: When we duplicate the Marionette object (a simple rectangle) and change the dimentions it creates a second strange rectangle (A to B on attached file)

 

DUPLICATE Example 2: When we change the dimensions and than duplicate the Marionette object (a simple rectangle) it also creates a second strange rectangle (C to D on attached file)

 

COPY/ PASTE: When we change the dimensions and than Copy/ Paste the Marionette object (a simple rectangle) it reset the dimensions and turn back to the default dimensions.

 

This is a Bug? We should be able to copy or duplicate Marionette Objects without losing the input dimensions, or having strange shapes, correct?

We are doing something wrong?

 

Thank you in advance for your help.

 

Best Regards,

Nuno

 

Rectangle Dim.vwx

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Captura de ecrã 2017-06-24, às 18.58.13.png

Captura de ecrã 2017-06-24, às 18.58.21.png

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@Nuno AntunesHi, Welcome to the wonderful world of Marionette. 

I see that the object reverts back to the original network inputs when duplicate by any means.

I even created an symbol as a plugin and non-plugin and the plugin failed to copy again and the non was able to be scaled and copied without failing. But to get to the Marionette object is a tedious process of double clicking into the it to change it.

BUT, if I double click into the object and immediately exit the object it will copy and retain the changed dimensions.

But again then change the dim of the copied one and try copy again the original problem occurs. So the double clicking in and out seems to lock the object allowing you to copy and paste without reverting back.

Same problem applies to a circle.

This will need to be look at by VW to see what the issue is.  

Rectangle Dim_AW_170625.vwx

Edited by Alan Woodwell

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@Alan WoodwellThank you very much for your prompt reply.

It seems the Marionette it is in a very early stage, and the system is not strong enough or stable.

 

I want to introduce Marionette Objects in the workflow of my Architectural Design Office. It will be a great improve and time saver, but I'm afraid that I'm investing time/ money in some system that is not stable and will introduce errors and mistakes in the files, and that i can have.

 

I already work with visual scripting in other Programs like e eXpresso in Cinema 4D and Blueprint in Unreal Engine 4. In both I'm a beginner, but I never get these unstable behavior, seems much more stable and mature systems.

 

What is your opinion on Marionette. It should improve and get better?

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@Marissa Farrell

Hello Marissa, I'm using Vectorworks 2017 SP2 (Build 338823) (64-Bit) running on a MacBook Pro (Retina, 13 inches, final 2013) with OS X El Capitan Version 10.11.6

 

In the file that I sent, if you change square A to 8m x 8m, and after that do a Duplicate command, it will result in the shape on B (we see a square with 8x8 and also a rectangle 4x8). If on the same modified square 8m x 8m we do a Copy/Paste command it will reset to the original size 4x4m.

 

It a strange behavior, with no logical explanation.

 

Thank you in advance for your help.

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@Marissa Farrell

Could be some error on the Original Nodes that I'm using. I just use the nodes as it comes on the Vectorwork library. I confirm that the version that @Alan Woodwellmade (with his nodes) it works perfect on my Computer. I can Duplicate or Copy Paste and the shape keeps the same measures.

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Hello @ Nuno Antunes ,

 

Didn't try your network but i had same problem before.

Just delete the 1_   and 2_  before the name off the node, and all will be fine.

 

 

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Hello @Nico Vindevogel

Thank you for your feedback. Yes I confirm that removing the inicial Numbers it gets more stable (not perfect yet ;). However I saw in a official Tutorial from Vectorworks, that putting this initial numbers was the correct way to control the order that the variables apear in the Marionette Object Info Pallet (there is other solution)

 

Dear @Marissa Farrellcould you help me on this. I really want to understand if I can rely on Vectorworks Marionette Objets, or if it something still work in project and not very stable on the base coding. This is a very basic object/ example, and I get strange behaviors. 

My Office have a big workflow on daily base, and I believe introducing Marionette Objets will be a great improve in the speed for the final result. However I can not work with objects that are not stable, and that i get different results if i Duplicate or Copy Paste. Thank You for your help.

 

Dear @Alan Woodwell could you confirm if in your side, with your modified marionette (your nodes) you get this result:

- When you Duplicate the Marionette Object, the enter value for the Width get duplicated on the Object Info. When we enter the Objects Nodes and move out it just disappears.

 

Thank you all for your help. I really want to believe in Marionette Great Future!!!

 

 

Marionette Duplicated Object.png

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@Nuno AntunesHi, the issue of stability to date is an issue. What I and others have found is that when you move an object the script appears to regenerate thus reverting back to the original input data. Have found this is to be the case especially when using textures. When you move the object all the textures change to others in your resource manager.

So in answer to the question of stability there appears still a ways to go to have these issues resolved. Although I have played with Marionette extensively I have only used a few things in the Office, the downpipe and the EAP gutters. I worry about the consequences if these fail and others in the office then complain. I only work as an employee now and am mindful of the pressures to bear to produce efficiently and effectively so until these issues are resolved I will still learn and try to improve Marionette so we can really have a great tool which will indeed speed up our repetitive workflow. Looking forward to these issues to be resolved.

If you copy this link youtu.be/3MNN2phhT8o to your browser and or add https:// to the start you should get to a short video showing some aspects that i am talking about.

Stability_Video.vwx

Edited by Alan Woodwell

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Hey Alan,

 

I just wanted to drop in and say that the textures resetting is a very specific problem, and this is often resolved if the texture you are setting it to is already in your document. The only time it will change is if the textures in your document change. 

You can get past this by using a string node with the texture name hardcoded instead of using the node with the popup list. 

 

As for your EAP object as well as other objects that generate relative to another object, as long as those are created/moved in top/plan or top, you should have no problem. 

 

I'm hopeful that some improvements we are working on now will help you feel more confident about Marionette, but I just wanted to say that I believe the stability is in good standing, even in 2017, if your networks are done correctly. 

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@Nuno Antunes

With regards to the numbering of nodes, I don't trust it personally and am not sure whose decision it was to put that in the training materials before it was tested thoroughly. I'll be sure to put in a bug report internally, but for now my advise would be to not order your nodes that way. 

Overall, I find Marionette to be plenty stable for use. Sometimes you will encounter hiccups, but as long as your networks are created logically, you should have very few problems. 

I'm always available to help troubleshoot when you encounter something you don't expect. 

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@Marissa FarrellHi, If you have a look at the video you can see the issues that I still face in 2017.

I will have a look at my networks to see where i am doing them incorrectly and causing them to be unstable.\

Thanks

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Hey @Marissa Farrell and @Alan Woodwell

 

After your great inputs, I finished my first Marionette Object that I want to introduce in my Design Agency workflow.

 

The Goal: Easily create a plaster ceiling with a cove all around in 2D and 3D. This kind of ceiling is used very often in our work. The 2D is easy (just a simple offset of a square or a polygon), but to get a perfect 3D (that produce accurate sections) it could take quite a time, specially in case of not regular ceilings (polygon shapes)

 

I create this Marionette Object based on a simple Polygon shape (geometry control) it automatically create the 2D and the 3D already with Textures for final render. 

 

The Inputs are:

- Polygon shape (control geometry)

- Cove Width

- Cove Height

- Ceiling Height (general ceiling height)

- Central Ceiling Rise (the central ceiling is not aligned with the over all ceiling)

- Plaster Thick (thick of the material used on the ceiling and cove)

- Acustic Thick (thick of the material in the central ceiling)

 

In attached I'm sharing the concept Sketch (as @Alan Woodwellalways recommend), Marionette Script, 2D Drawing, 3D Model, VWX file.

 

The Marionette Object is stable and work as expected. There are still some restrictions:

- When duplicated it sims to some how duplicate the 2D light blue color (the duplicated object get darker) but when entering the script and go out, this disappear. 

- When i try to Wrap the different parts of the script (2D Drawing, 3D Central Ceiling, 3D Cove) it results in a Bug Error. @Marissa Farrellis not possible to debug inside a Wrapper, correct? There is any work around when using Control Geometry and we need to script inside of the Wrapper?

 

In general, I kindly ask you to look at this file and tell me your opinion of this object. This is the way to do it? there is any Beginner error that I should modify? There is any Best Practice that I should introduce.

 

Thank you in advance for your feedback, your opinion will very appreciated.

 

Best regards,

 

Nuno

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Ceiling_Cove.vwx

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@Nuno AntunesLooking good, You are a Pro. You obviously have the logical mind that can do this and you appear to have a good understanding of the process and what you need to achieve.

Will look over it tomorrow.  Look forward to seeing more.:)

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