Mesh Edit

[Benson Shaw]

Mesh Edit should be a solution to post in Earlier Thread:

http://techboard.vectorworks.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=196246#Post196246

Didn't have time to respond then.

But something strange is happening with the mesh edit, at least on my system.

Normally to edit a mesh, Select the mesh, marquee select a vertex, or multiple vertices, then drag with the Select tool to change the shape. But create an extrude and convert it to Mesh (OptCmdR). If any mesh vertex is selected, a different vertex on the ground plane self selects as soon as the mouse is moved. The two points move in parallel during edit. That second point is the only one which can be selected by itself.

Use ShiftClick to deselect the second vertex, and move the first as expected. But next selection for mesh edit causes that other vertex to select again.

Same situation if several points are marquee selected. That other vertex adds itself to the selection.

Can anyone confirm?

Or is this my set up?

Or is this expected behavior? If so, how is it useful?

-B

[PVA - Admin]

I don't work with meshes often, but I always recall having to double-click the mesh object and then I get access to the contained 3D polygons inside.

NURBS surfaces edit in the manner you describe above, but I don't get this issue when editing a mesh, as unless I've double-clicked it and am inside it, I get no control handles at all.

(However semi related, this did remind me of a request for polygon count control when converting objects to meshes, which I have submitted. Currently even converting a simple sphere gives you a geodesic dome effect. The amount of 3D polygons generated should be user-controllable.)

[Kevin McAllister]

Ironically you tied across to my other thread Jim. I would assume the number of polygons is controlled by -

Preferences>3D>3D Conversion Resolution - I believe it affects how extrudes and other solids operations display geometry. Not baked in unless you convert to generic solids while at a specific resolution. It also defines the number of segments in a sweep.

isn't it?

Kevin

[PVA - Admin]

It is indeed, however the control is nowhere near fine enough in my opinion, and as discussed in the other thread, it is NOT obvious that this setting affects this conversion.

I think the quality control for Mesh objects (in addition to allowing far more polygons to be created than currently even 3D Conversion Res set to Very High permits) should pop up during conversion.

Edited March 24, 2014 by JimW

[Kevin McAllister]

I think that's a great wish. For example in Rhino, the mesh conversion internally uses the same dialog options as for exporting an STL. VW also needs this control when using Send to Cinema 4D. Perhaps there's a way to solve all these issues with the same code for consistency...

Kevin

Edited March 24, 2014 by Kevin McAllister

[PVA - Admin]

Where else do you think it would be useful? Off the top of my head:

Import/Export STL (Already put in a request to allow Importing STLs)

Import 3DS (Export allows quality control during export already)

Send to C4D

Export to C4D

Export to Rhino 3DM

Export to Parasolid X_T (However I think this format is mainly about EXACT geometry, so a quality setting may be inappropriate.)

[Benson Shaw]

Oops, thread took a turn into facet count.

Jim - I respectfully disagree. Mesh edit has always had a confusing, dual nature.

1. With Select tool - vertices stay connected so that adjoining facets all adjust when a vertex is moved. Shift click to extend/reduce selection.

2. With Reshape tool - facets are disconnected, vertices are stacked and move only one at a time.

Try it. Many Vectorworks users attempt to Reshape expecting results which can be achieved with Select.

I just tested mesh edit with Select tool in v2010, v2012, v2013. Meshes edit with the Select tool as I describe.

In v2014, that strange self select vertex happens.

Can anyone confirm, please.

I think it's a bug.

-B

[Kevin McAllister]

Oops, thread took a turn into facet count.

My apologies Benson. I didn't mean to derail your thread by responding to something in Jim's reply.

Jim - I respectfully disagree. Mesh edit has always had a confusing, dual nature.

1. With Select tool - vertices stay connected so that adjoining facets all adjust when a vertex is moved. Shift click to extend/reduce selection.

2. With Reshape tool - facets are disconnected, vertices are stacked and move only one at a time.

Try it. Many Vectorworks users attempt to Reshape expecting results which can be achieved with Select.

I just tested mesh edit with Select tool in v2010, v2012, v2013. Meshes edit with the Select tool as I describe.

In v2014, that strange self select vertex happens.

Can anyone confirm, please.

I think it's a bug.

-B

These observations are really interesting. I just remember thinking that the way VW handles mesh editing was confusing (ie. I remember the faces all being disconnected) and almost always send things to C4D, make changes and then import them back. Mesh editing in C4D is way more intuitive. This is a good argument for a way to select points or faces in VW.

I am seeing the self select vertex here too. If I drag to make a selection, things select correctly, but as soon as I move the cursor again the additional selected point appears. Its definitely a bug.

Kevin

[Benson Shaw]

Thanks, Kevin!

Filing now.

-B

[Kevin McAllister]

Import/Export STL (Already put in a request to allow Importing STLs)

Import 3DS (Export allows quality control during export already)

Send to C4D

Export to C4D

Definitely these.

Export to Rhino 3DM

Export to Parasolid X_T (However I think this format is mainly about EXACT geometry, so a quality setting may be inappropriate.)

Not these. They are solids or NURBS based formats/programs. Accuracy is key.

KM

[PVA - Admin]

Benson, confirmed. I didn't mean to imply that it was working properly in 2014, I genuinely didn't know it was a capability before. We have been avoiding the use of meshes in TS recently because of other unrelated issues, but I got so into the habit of it I forgot that they were capable in this regard, my fault.

[PVA - Admin]

Import/Export STL (Already put in a request to allow Importing STLs)

Import 3DS (Export allows quality control during export already)

Send to C4D

Export to C4D

Definitely these.

I'll write it up now.

[Kaare Baekgaard]

But something strange is happening with the mesh edit, at least on my system.

Can anyone confirm?

I can confirm and add to the issue: I cannot deselect the vertex, that is added to my selection:

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEXfCY0aBGM&feature=youtu.be

[Benson Shaw]

Kaare - I am able to Shift Click that extra point to deselect it.

This process is required each time a mesh vertex(s) is selected or moved, except if that "special" point is part of the selection.

Shift Marquee causes the extra point to blink, then deselect, but it reselects when the shift key is released.

-B

Edited June 13, 2014 by Benson Shaw

[Kaare Baekgaard]

Benson and others - Here is a workaround, if you need to edit complex meshes:

1. Enter the mesh, you wish to edit. 2. Create a 3D polygon at a place, where it is easy to locate again. 3. Send to back. 4. Exit mesh and do the edits. All 'strangeness' will now focus on that poor innocent 3D polygon. 5. Delete the decoy when you're done.

[Benson Shaw]

Braavo, Kaare!

How did you find that solution?!

-B