Recessed light not very bright

[JeffPPI]

Hi All,

I'm trying to get a recessed light to shine onto a countertop. I've been successful so far, but can't seem to get them to shine brightly. i can adjust the brightness all day long, but it still seems really dim.

When I insert the light as an instrument through spotlight, i can edit the light properties just like any other light and achieve the goal, but the light is not shining from the lamp, it's shining from the locus insertion point (when i tell it to draw the beam.

I'd like to post a pic, but it's on another laptop that can't connect to the internet right now.

is there something simple that i'm missing?

Thanks!

[CipesDesign]

Have you tried the "Lit Fog" option? It might be helpful. Also, the texture of the counter top might make a difference as to how it receives/reflects the light.... See attached for a very quick and dirty example. Is this the sort of effect you're after? Or something different? P

[michaelk]

Jeff

Something worth checking...

My memory isn't perfect on this, but I believe some/many/all of the stock instrument symbols in 2008 spotlight use the insertion point of the instrument as the source of the light.

So if you are also rendering the pipe or truss the unit is hanging on, it will block most or all of the light.

The solution is to move the light just below the truss or give the truss a texture that doesn't cast shadows.

hth

michaelk

[DaveP]

I'm having an issue with recessed lights as well. I'm using the "Lfxt Rec DnLight" symbol out of the library "16_Electrical_Lighting". The problem is the insertion point is where the beam starts from, but the actual 3D fixture is not at that point, it is offset from the insertion point, and if I move the symbol to the correct position in my drawing, it also moves the beam. I've attached an example of the issues where you can see the way the beam is offset from the fixture.

Thanks

Dave

[img:left]http://www.pretztech.com/Misc/Offset%20beam.png[/img]

[michaelk]

Dave

That is odd. Sounds like you're using VW12 (?)

If you can post a file, I'm sure someone can figure it out.

I just inserted that symbol in a v12 document and it rendered as expected. Just in case your symbol as some crazy corruption, try opening this file and see if it renders correctly...

If you're using v12 w/ Snow Leopard, I wonder if that's the problem...

michaelk

[JeffPPI]

That's the same problem i was having.

the laptop i'm using is a macbook pro 08 with snow leopard. (not the one in my sig)

[JeffPPI]

Peter,

the only light adjustment tool on the symbol is brightness (no "Edit Light" option). if i use spotlight's instrument insertion tool, i get the same result that Dave posted.

[michaelk]

Jeff

What symbol did you use, or did you create your own?

Can you post a file w/ just a misbehaving symbol?

michaelk

[michaelk]

I see what's happening. (at least w/ Jeff - maybe Dave, too)

It's a combination of things:

1. The symbol's insertion point is not centered on the symbol.

2. Using the spotlight insertion tool is confusing the matter. It's creating another beam of light.

In both of the attached pictures, the lower recessed light was inserted w/ the regular symbol insertion tool. The higher light was inserted w/ the spotlight inst insertion tool. In the attached pictures, the symbol's light is blue, and the little white "pin spot" is the spotlight light.

The spotlight tool creates it's own light, starting from the insertion point (or, w/ 2009 and above, a 3D locus in the symbol)

And, for reasons unknown, the center of the 2D geometry, 3d geometry, and light object in the symbol LFxt Rec DnLight are all 12 1/8" right and 12 1/8" above the insertion point. So when the spotlight inst insertion tool is used, the light from the spotlight tool comes from a point 1 foot left and 1 foot "down" from the apparent position of the fixture. BUT there is still a light object built into the fixture. It renders correctly. However the only way to edit that light object is to go into the 3D edit space of the symbol.

3 Suggestions:

1: Create your own recessed light fixtures. Use a light object that is created w/ the IES data or use a regular light object that is close enough for your needs. If you need it, create and attach a record format and link text to data to help create schedules for the electrical contractor... Insert w/ the regular insertion tool.

2. If you like the spotlight insertion tool and all the LLM benefits that go along with it, then create a new symbol, attach the inst record format(s) and set the default data for beam angles, field angles, and candlepower, etc. Insert w/ the spotlight inst insertion tool.

3. If you just want the beam you are seeing to line up w/ the fixture, then edit the symbol LFxt Rec DnLight in both 2D and 3D so that everything is centered on the insertion point. That will move all the recessed lights in your drawing 12 1/8" left and 12 1/8" down. So you will have to adjust that.... And you will still have two beams of light for every fixture - the regular light object and the spotlight light. So you may want to delete the light object from the fixture....

hth

michaelk

[DaveP]

Interestingly, the symbol out of VW12 renders fine on my machine, unlike the same symbol from my VW2008 libraries.

My only other issue is that the symbol doesn't permit much adjustment to the light output, and it is weak, to say the least. I created a basic recessed light frame, (6") and inserted a PAR38 lamp out of the library. (Halogen Par38 60w flood) When I use the light insertion tool to put it in the drawing from the Top/Plan perspective, the lamp is draw facing the top of my screen. If I then rotate the 3D symbol to face straight down towards the floor of the kitchen I'm drawing, I get a bright spot on the counter it is focused on, approximately 5' below the lamp. However, when I adjust all settings, field angle, beam angle, etc, I find the output still in a bright spot on the counter, but also a beam shooting horizontally onto my upper cabinets of the kitchen. This beam is a "more correct" beam in that it matches my settings. What am I doing wrong in using these symbols? Is it possible these symbols are corrupted as well?

Thanks for the help, I'm relatively new to 3D drawing in VW, and doing my best to "catch up" to the rest of the world...

Dave

[michaelk]

Dave

Are you using the Spotlight Inst. Insertion Tool (in the Spotlight workspace)?

The symbol (Halogen Par38 60w flood) has a light object imbedded in it.

This is the same kind of light object you see in the Visualization Tools. In 2010, the "use Emitter" box is checked and the initial output, beam spreads, and Kelvin values are supplied. I suspect it is the same for 12 and 2008.

You might want to try just inserting a light object in a simple drawing with some 3D geometry for the light to hit, just so you can play w/ the settings of the light object. Note that you can set the Dimmer (%) as high as you want. 100 need not be the brightest.

If you insert the symbol (Halogen Par38 60w flood) into your drawing with the regular insertion tool - not the spotlight inst. insertion tool - the light object that is in the 3D part of the symbol will, of course, be in each instance of the symbol.

To change the properties of the light, you must edit the light object in the symbol. This will change the value for all the symbols in the drawing. I would play around with turning "use Emitter" off. It will give you a little more control - at least that's the case w/ 2010.

One trick that makes managing renderings a little easier is to create a class(es) for the light object(s). In the symbol 3D edit space assign just the light object to that class. You can now turn the lights on and off just by making that class visible or invisible.

If you want to use the spotlight instrument insertion tool, then don't put a light object in the symbol. The spotlight tool will take care of that. Create the symbol you want to use. You can then attach the instrument record format and set the defaults or just insert the symbol w/ the spotlight inst instertion tool and set the values then. However - it's important to make sure that the 3D geometry of your symbol uses a texture that doesn't cast shadows - that's why all the spotlight symbols use the "default instrument texture".

hth

michaelk