Edit Window Object

[Greg Rosenke]

Hello. Novice VW user here. I've searched everywhere for an answer, but no solution.

 

I have a window plug-in object that has a locus point off in space. When it's inserted in a wall, the cut opening is larger and offset to one side. I can't find a way to edit the object to move/delete the locus points. Please see the attached picture below. You can see the dashed outline indicates the oversized cut in the 2D wall. The 3D view looks ok.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Tom W.]

Can you post a file?

[Greg Rosenke]

Hi @Tom W. Thanks for replying. See attached file.

Wall_Window_test.vwx

[Tom W.]

Hi Greg the Window is using a custom symbol ('WINDOW_W1T') which needed a little bit of editing. See attached. I aligned the 2D + 3D geometry + the Wall Hole Component centrally on the insertion point + removed a couple of 2D Loci in the 3D Component. Did you create this symbol or receive it from someone else?

 

You might want to edit it further so it has the right depth for the wall.

 

 

 

Wall_Window_test_TW.vwx

[Greg Rosenke]

Great! I received it from someone else. But, I updated the symbol geometry from a 2D/3D object that I created myself.

 

How did you do the edits? I'm new to VW, so a step-by-step would be greatly appreciated.

[Tom W.]

15 minutes ago, Greg Rosenke said:

How did you do the edits?

 

1. Check the Window settings to see what symbol it's using.

2. Find that symbol in the Resource Manager > right-click on it > 'Edit 3D Component'.

3. The 3D geometry wants to be centred on the insertion point in plan + the bottom of it wants to be at Z=0 (I have just realised that the geometry has a Z height of 2 foot something: this needs correcting). Remove redundant 2D Loci if present!

4. Switch to the Top Component: enable 'Show Other' > '3D' + make sure your 2D geometry aligns with the 3D geometry. Note: the 2D Loci dictate where the Wall is clipped in Top/Plan + would normally be assigned to 'Non Plot' class so can be turned off.

5. Switch to the 3D Wall Hole Component: make sure the 3D solid aligns with the geometry in the 3D Component. The 3D solid inside the Wall Hole Component dictates how the Wall is clipped in 3D.

 

I think that's everything! 

 

Note: this is all using the 'Component Edit' palette for the symbol:

 

 

[Greg Rosenke]

@Tom W. thanks for the list.

 

I was able to edit the 2D locus points.

 

Unfortunately, "Edit 3D Component" is not listed when I right click. There seems to be a locus point off in space and attached to the object.

Also, I don't see "Component Edit" palette your using. I'm in VW Architect 2024 Update 4.

 

 

[Tom W.]

It looks like you're editing the Window Style rather than the hybrid symbol the Window uses via the 'Use symbol geometry' setting...

[Tom W.]

The is the Window Style that you are editing:

 

 

This is the hybrid symbol that I was referring to in my posts:

 

 

The Window PIO is getting its geometry from the 'WINDOW_W1T' symbol rather than the PIO generating the geometry.

[Greg Rosenke]

Hi @Tom W., I'm not understanding the relationship between the two: Plug-in-Object (PIO) and the hybrid symbol. I assumed that they are one in the same. Can you please elaborate further? Apologies, I come from a SolidWorks background and I'm trying to adjust my learning towards how VW approaches 3D modelling/editing.

[Tom W.]

Your Window is 'non-standard' in that it uses symbol geometry, i.e. rather than opting to have the geometry generated by the PIO you have decided to use your own custom geometry. You have basically decided to forego the Window Tool + created your own window symbol from scratch but rather than inserting it in the Wall directly you have used a Window as a container: doing it this way means that your symbol becomes a 'Window' in as much as it can be tagged + scheduled along with other 'normal' Windows.

 

To get your head around it better I would start again in a new blank file + try creating your window from scratch using the Window tool. If you can achieve what you need using the tool on its own you don't need to go down the 'Use symbol geometry' route at all. Normally you'd only resort to using a custom symbol if you are unable to create the configuration you want using the tool alone + even then, you don't need to incorporate the symbol into a Window unless you expressly need it to be a Window: you can insert it straight into the Wall as it is.

 

Basically what you are doing is relatively advanced + complex + I imagine most people happily use the Window Tool without ever utilising the 'Use symbol geometry' option at all or at least fairly rarely.

[Greg Rosenke]

I created my own 2D/3D symbol from scratch. But it doesn't have all the Window settings available similar to the last VW file I posted. In the new one, I can add or edit a tag, but I'm unable to show the tag I've added. Is there a way to make this symbol a "window" symbol and behave like the ones found in the resource library/VW libraries/window styles/standard windows?

Wall_Window_new.vwx

Edited May 10 by Greg Rosenke

[Pat Stanford]

As Tom tried to explain above, if you custom model the window you still want to use the Window Plugin Object, but check the Use Symbol Geometry check box and then choose your custom symbol.

 

BUT, what you really want to do is spend the hour or two learning about the Window Plugin Object and what it can do so that you don't have to model every window from scratch.  Unless you are doing something really custom, at least 80-99% of the windows you will be using can be modeled using the Window object.

[Tom W.]

10 hours ago, Greg Rosenke said:

I created my own 2D/3D symbol from scratch.

 

Like I said, I am suggesting you forget about creating a custom symbol for the time being + try to make your window using the Window Tool. This should always be your first port of call. You only need to resort to making a custom window symbol if you are unable to make it using the Window Tool.

 

If you are unfamiliar with the Window Tool have a search on the University for info e.g.:

 

https://university.vectorworks.net/mod/h5pactivity/view.php?id=5640

[Greg Rosenke]

Thank you for your support and advice. I will look into creating my custom window using the Window Tool.

[Greg Rosenke]

On 5/11/2024 at 2:30 AM, Tom W. said:

If you are unfamiliar with the Window Tool have a search on the University for info e.g.:

 

https://university.vectorworks.net/mod/h5pactivity/view.php?id=5640

I'm restricted from accessing the video because my account in the customer portal is created via a free account. I've contacted our account admin to fix.

 

In the meantime,  I have been looking at the VW help topic for "Window Tool", and it explains the functions of each setting in detail. But, not necessarily how to use/or not use each setting. I'm hoping the video will help. The challenge I've encountered is that some options are greyed out until you turn on/off specific settings. It's a bit like detective work as beginner. Also, changing one value in a setting will sometimes mess up other values, geometry, or offset geometry of features.  

 

The closest I've come to my desired results is found under Window Settings/General/Configuration (I selected "custom")/Custom Configuration Options. In here I have added 2 rows and 2 columns. Each sash can be individually selected and edited using the arrows at the bottom of the task pane. I'm still unable tweak the settings to make one sliding window in the top right corner (see pic). The image of the window on the left is what I have so far. The one on the right is what I hope to achieve using the Window Tool.

 

Any advice would be helpful.

Wall_Slab_Window_1.vwx

[Tom W.]

Ok I don't think either the Window Tool or WinDoor are going to be able to create this particular configuration so now at least you know your only option is to do it using a custom symbol! But the trade-off is that whilst a custom-modelled symbol will give you the exact specs you want you will loose all the PIO functionality of the Window Tool: it will just be static 'dumb' geometry.

 

As discussed earlier, when you use a custom symbol you can either:

 

1) model the 2D + 3D geometry for the window, create a symbol from it, enable 'Insert in Walls' in the Symbol Options, include a Wall Hole Component to define how you want it to clip the Wall if necessary + insert it directly in your Wall 

 

or

 

2) take this symbol + insert it as a Window by utilising the 'Use symbol geometry' function, but be aware that all this means is that VW will recognise the symbol as a 'Window'  in as much as you can tag it + report on it along with all the other 'normal' Windows, you don't get any of the PIO functionality: all the settings are still there but they don't do anything.

 

I hope now having gone through this process you have a bit of a better understanding of the things discussed earlier in the thread...

 

Basically my approach is 1) try to get what I want with the Window tool alone + generally I can, 2) if I can't I try it with WinDoor instead which is an alternative tool available via Help > Install Partner Products... + which has some different configuration options (but is less desirable in other respects), and 3) if that doesn't work as a last resort model it as a custom symbol.

 

It is a shame that the Window Tool doesn't allow single sliding sashes to allow the configuration you want. You could always file a Wishlist item for this as the more flexibility the better.

[Tom W.]

By the way I could be wrong about doing it with the Window or WinDoor Tools: I'd love to be proved wrong by someone! For example with WinDoor you can replace selected sashes/openings with a custom symbol + might be able to create the single sliding opener + the offset central divider this way. But even so you might still prefer using a custom symbol inserted as a Window instead + not combine Window + WinDoor objects in the same file... (for scheduling purposes).

[Greg Rosenke]

Thanks for the input. I've installed WinDoor and know I'll see what I can come up with.

Cheers.