True 3d dimensioning

[P Retondo]

I'm using v2020, so please tell me that this has been already developed by v2023:  true 3d dimensioning so that we can create dimensions in a viewport on a 3d object from any viewpoint using the true dimensions of the object.  This would require 4 clicks to execute instead of three:  dimension point, dimension point, plane of dimension leader lines, offset of leader lines.  Then we can create something like this without doing it manually with lines and text:

 

[Kevin K]

@P Retondo

you should be able to do that in 2020…I believe.

the trick is to set the working plane appropriately pertaining to each dimension, on the design layer.

Try that and if you are having trouble let me know.  I am making lunch at the moment 🙂

[P Retondo]

Thanks, Kevin, that does work, but it is not very convenient.  Among the issues:  working plane does not always align with the desired plane, so you have to move the dimension; text size needs to be scaled when the viewport is in a different scale.  I always dimension in a sheet layer viewport, so I am looking for a tool that creates proper-looking and correct dimensions from that workflow.  Since the program is capable of doing this in a design layer, if we add manual steps, it seems like not such a big ask to make this work in sheet layer viewports.  The dimension objects themselves can be screen layer (as my example above uses).

[Kevin K]

I don’t think you want to use screen plane….that could prove to be undesirable…

give me a few minutes and I will head to the computer and check all this out and export a file back to 2020 for you to review..

[P Retondo]

Kevin, although you can view layer plane objects in a sheet layer viewport, sheet layer annotations use only screen plane objects, as far as I know.  Don't fuss too much over this, I think that what I want isn't really available, and to make dimensioning 3d objects in a sheet layer viewport easy, it should be.  We shouldn't have to go into a design layer, set working planes for various orientations, adjust text size, and otherwise fuss around to quickly dimension an object.  I can do it faster just using 2d lines in a SLVP!

[Kevin K]

So, I did some testing.

1) I rarely dimension with annotations in a viewport...with a few exceptions. Especially referencing a design layer that is in top plan view.

2) You can't 3d dimension an object in an isometric view within a viewport using annotations....like your example. You could, but it would be very time consuming, as you noted.  It would need to be done sort of on the fly in a screen plane environment.

3) You were also correct that, sadly, modifying the text size within a viewport, using the 'advanced properties' option will change the text size, but it doesn't keep the text centered on the dimension line. Not sure why that is the case. Seems stupid 🙂

4) Would you really need to have multiple situations in a sheet layer viewport where you would need to change scale a lot? Doesn't seem like that would really be necessary ??

*5) Another option, if you really needed to change the text scale in a SLVP, would be to just duplicate the design layer you wanted to reference and change the text scale in THAT design layer, then reference that to a SLVP.

That would be very quick and easy, seems to me.

6) I didn't really have any issues 3d dimensioning when referencing differnet working planes...not suer why that was an issue in your case.

 

I attached a 2020 file if you want to have a look.

May God be with you, my son. 🙂 haha

 

 

DIMENSIONS TEST v2020.vwx

[Kevin K]

@P Retondo......getting into the weeds a bit deeper with this.....I think I found a way for you to achieve what you wish...for the most part 🙂

I attached an updated 2020 file near the bottom, after the screenshots. have a look and digest the info.

Let me know if you have questions.

 

 

 

3d Dimension 2 v2020.vwx

[Elite Exhibits]

@Kevin K

 

¿ Are there limitations on 3D Dimensions rendering in a viewport correctly ?

 

I have no issue with 3D Dimensions in a Rendered Design Layer

     Rendering in a Viewport is quite flaky, -  Hidden line especially

          Please see attached

¿ Am I missing a step / setting? 

     

     Any applicable answers and appropriate advice, as always, are aptly appreciated.

 

MacBook Pro M1 - OS 12.6

VW 2023 - SP5

 

Peter

Issues Dims 3D v2023.vwx

[Kevin K]

@Elite Exhibits..uh, first, I am working in 2022 so I can't open your file. 😞 but...you could always export it to 2022 and repost? 🙂

Secondly, if I understand correctly, you cannot utilize 3d dimensioning INSIDE a viewport....has to be done on a design layer...THEN you can create a viewport on a sheet layer. At least that is my experience....

Can you repost your file as a 2022 version, and I can try to sort it out, then send it back to you with some thoughts??

 

[Elite Exhibits]

@Kevin K

 

More fodder - Please take a look at this file / movie

 

I started from scratch thinking that a file from before 2023 may have brought issues along with it.

 

3D Dimensions on the Design Layer work no issue - render nice.

    Make a viewport of the 3D dimensioned Design layer and rendering in the viewport is inconsistent & flaky - (see the movie)

 

I though it was a continuing issue with Unified View as Unified View / Unified View Settings have created many inexplicable aggravating anomalies since it arrived.

 

VW 2020 file attached

 

FYI - I have VW 2023, yet I use VW2020 day to day as it has proven to be stable.

 

 

Peter

3D Dims VW 2023 again from scratch v2020.vwx

[Kevin K]

ok, hang tight, let me have a look...

[Kevin K]

OK, a couple of things:

1) I attached a 2020 file that has my input...check that out compared to your file.

2) The layer scale you chose for the design layer was 1:1....basically never in your life do that 🙂

3) On your saved view for the 3rd Viewport it was set to PERSPECTIVE, Instead of ORTHOGONAL....that was why it looked whacky, in addition to the fact that you had the scale set to 1:1...VW pretty much hates when you choose a layer scale that WON'T fit within the page size....again....never in your life do that 1. 🙂

Also your text had a solid fill, as opposed to a 'none' fill...which is why it wasn't showing up.

 

 

4) I changed the sheet layer for viewport 3 to 24 x 36 and gave that viewport a scale of 3/4" just to make sure it renders correctly....which it did...

 

Let me know if I missed anything.

3D Dims-Kev v2020.vwx

[P Retondo]

All said and done, thanks for all the input, but I believe we would all be better off with the ability to dimension 3-D objects appropriately in a sheet layer viewport.  Click on point, click on point, click on direction of the leader lines, click on offset, and display the actual distance between the points calculated from their coordinates in 3-D space.  This would be analogous to our current dimensioning capability in sheet layer view ports. Display of text would be clearer, because when you’re looking at layer plane text at an acute angle, it can be unreadable. Plus text that is placed in the model shows up in the viewport, in unreliable scale and position.  Why should we have to create elaborate workarounds? Isn’t software supposed to make our job easier?

Edited June 28, 2023 by P Retondo

[Amorphous - Julian]

I agree with the original sentiment of @P Retondo in this post.

 

3D dimensioning should be able to be done inside a viewport. All these ‘workarounds’ like doing SLVP is fine when we work on a file as a one-man-band, but it gets really messy when you’re trying to explain this workaround workflow to a team. 
 

Anything that ends up being.a ‘reference of a referenced instance’ has the risks of things going wrong in group work- wrong items deleted, class visibility mdiified and gone wrong.

 

Even the basic idea of SLvP is actually quite hard to explain to someone new to Vectorworks, let alone having them make an SLvP of something, dimension on top of the SLvP, and then make a viewport of that. Too complicated. I can just hear the brain of some of my team shutting down if they had to do this for 30 pieces of joinery. And multiple distractions and breaks will ensue 

 

a genuine solution for this would be much better 

Edited August 10, 2024 by Amorphous - Julian

[mjm]

18 hours ago, Amorphous - Julian said:

I agree with the original sentiment of @P Retondo in this post.

 

3D dimensioning should be able to be done inside a viewport. All these ‘workarounds’ like doing SLVP is fine when we work on a file as a one-man-band, but it gets really messy when you’re trying to explain this workaround workflow to a team. 
 

Anything that ends up being.a ‘reference of a referenced instance’ has the risks of things going wrong in group work- wrong items deleted, class visibility mdiified and gone wrong.

 

Even the basic idea of SLvP is actually quite hard to explain to someone new to Vectorworks, let alone having them make an SLvP of something, dimension on top of the SLvP, and then make a viewport of that. Too complicated. I can just hear the brain of some of my team shutting down if they had to do this for 30 pieces of joinery. And multiple distractions and breaks will ensue 

 

a genuine solution for this would be much better 

Maybe suggest they think about the SLVP as a fancy print preview they can write on…