One Datatag For Multiple Preset Records?

[cavan.smith]

Hi There, 

 

Not sure if this is possible or if I am doing it the right way, I am a landscape Architect trying to find a way to annotate our plans to call out material supplier area etc. 

 

I am aware of building the Callout database but find this really clunky to use, I really love the speed and simplicity of records and data tags and hoping to use that workflow to annotate instead. 

 

I was hoping to create multiple preset records (with the record defaults set to the actual material or product) within the resource browser so that you can quickly search and apply the selected record to any type of object. Each record has the exact same format eg Action, ID, Description. Finish, Supplier. etc. The reason for doing it this way is so we dont have to manually spend time looking through or manually typing the information as the defaults in the record are already set by default.

 

My Issue is that you then have to create an individual Data for each specific record? Is there a way to have a universal datatag that you can call out any record information? 

 

I understand we could have one record with built in information that you could select or type. However we are just trying to reduce the need to scroll through and select or type  information within the record format by using the records default ability. 

 

Any help would be really appreciated!

 

 

1587123777_MultipleSavedRecords.vwx

[Pat Stanford]

If what you are doing is working for you, then I hate to tell you you are doing it wrong.  But you are doing it wrong. 😉

 

At least in the sample file you attached.

 

You have created four different record formats, each with identical fields. If instead you had a single record format and just edited the fields for each instance, then you would only need a single data tag.  If you are doing it the way you are so that you can get the values from a library or the Resource Manager, take a look at using symbols instead. Make a symbol for each set of record data that you need. When you need to apply that record to something, just place an instance of that symbol and then use the Eyedropper tool to transfer the record data over.

 

Or if they are always the same, you could use "Red" symbols. Check the Convert to Group (Convert to Plugin) box in the Symbol Options. The name in the RM will turn Red and when you place the Red Symbol it will automatically be converted to a group, or if it is a single object, it will just be placed as that object.

 

Another Option if you have a limited number of records or object types that you want a Data Tag to reference is to use overlapping text and define the text using a Worksheet formula.

 

If you create a symbol with two coincident pieces of text and set each of them to use one of the formulas below for Dynamic Text you will have a single Data Tag that will report the Prefix, ID Label and Suffix for either a Door or a Window.  The trick is the WS_IFNA function.  If the record that is being looked for does not exist in the object referenced, then it returns the second term of the function. In this case that is '' (two single quotes next to each other indicating an empty string.

 

#WS_IFNA(CONCAT('Door'.'IDPrefix', 'Door'.'IDLabel', 'Door'.'IDSuffix'), '')#

#WS_IFNA(CONCAT('Window'.'IDPrefix', 'Window'.'IDLabel', 'Window'.'IDSuffix'), '')#

 

I have only done this for two different object types so far, but you could do it for as many as you have the patience to edit the tag.  I think 5 or 10 would probably be the most I would consider doing.  The placeholder text blocks can be different lengths and if use Send to Back on the long ones you can set the stacking order so you can select each piece of text to edit the Dynamic Text.  Also, this will probably work better with Left or Right aligned text than Centered.

 

Ask again if you need more help.

[cavan.smith]

Hi Pat, 

 

Thanks for your quick reply, yeah i though it was the case aha. 

 

In your experience how would you use data tags to annotate a general arrangements plan? so that the data tags were consistent in the information they show like the example file I attached above? (displaying proposed,description, supplier, area) is this possible without having to manually input the information into every drawing into a record? 

 

 

[Pat Stanford]

How are you using the multiple record now? Are those just the default settings for the record and you just attach the correct record to the object?

 

[cavan.smith]

Yeah that was our thinking so you don't have to type anything its already preset to the record.  This allows us to have consistency across multiple team members. but as i mentioned doesn't quite work because you need a specific data tag for each individual record. the symbol idea is interesting but potentially room for error if eye dropper settings are not exact. 

 

Another approach we are thinking is have say 5 types of records for each key design element (wall, slabs, edges, structures, furniture etc) each one of those records then has pre-filled pop-up menu choices that would contain lists of the product, manufacturer, description etc. then there are only 5 different types of data tags to suit each record type. we're trying to eliminate inconsistency across the team. 

 

Hope that makes sense. 

[Pat Stanford]

How many different "records" are you going to have? With four I can think of a number of solutions. With 40 a couple. With 400 nothing easy comes to mind.

[Tom W.]

On 2/22/2023 at 2:49 AM, cavan.smith said:

Hi There, 

 

Not sure if this is possible or if I am doing it the right way, I am a landscape Architect trying to find a way to annotate our plans to call out material supplier area etc. 

 

I am aware of building the Callout database but find this really clunky to use, I really love the speed and simplicity of records and data tags and hoping to use that workflow to annotate instead. 

 

I was hoping to create multiple preset records (with the record defaults set to the actual material or product) within the resource browser so that you can quickly search and apply the selected record to any type of object. Each record has the exact same format eg Action, ID, Description. Finish, Supplier. etc. The reason for doing it this way is so we dont have to manually spend time looking through or manually typing the information as the defaults in the record are already set by default.

 

My Issue is that you then have to create an individual Data for each specific record? Is there a way to have a universal datatag that you can call out any record information? 

 

I understand we could have one record with built in information that you could select or type. However we are just trying to reduce the need to scroll through and select or type  information within the record format by using the records default ability. 

 

Any help would be really appreciated!

 

 

1587123777_MultipleSavedRecords.vwx 3.86 MB · 5 downloads

 

I may have misunderstood what you are trying to do but you can use the Data Manager to attach a Record to all objects that are assigned to a particular class, pre-setting the field values on a class by class basis but using the same Record Format each time. So for example when you create an object in the 'L-3000 Pavements-Gravel' class (or assign an existing object to that class), that object will automatically acquire your Type/Action/Description/Finish/Supplier Record with the fields pre-populated in the correct manner for that class. And likewise with all your other classes. Then as long as all your team are using the correct classes, all objects will automatically have the record attached with the correct info filled in in each case, ensuring that when those objects are tagged the correct info is displayed. You enter the info once in the Data Manager initially then save those settings + make sure your template file is set up with those settings pre-loaded + then never need to attach a record or change any of the field values ever again. I can only say this because I finally got around to learning how to do this yesterday... 🙂

[cavan.smith]

Hey Tom, cheers for your reply, aha I managed to figure this out as well after trying to figure out if you could attach records to classes. 

 

I'm just in the process of developing our template with the data manager its going to be a total game changer in the speed in which we annotate. 

 

I am currently having a few issues with updating information in the data manager though. for example if i want to change a preset dataset for a class say (you wanted add more to the description or change a suppliers name) when i save the data manager my data tags in the drawing kind of reset, as well and go blank... I then have to go and manually select all by class and reset the record on the oip data tab, if that makes sense? 

 

I am assuming this will happen a bit in our studio if we are using/building on new products from different suppliers or just having the ability to globally control the data without having to reset all the data tags in the drawing. 

 

Have you experienced this yet? 

 

 

[Tom W.]

6 hours ago, cavan.smith said:

I am currently having a few issues with updating information in the data manager though. for example if i want to change a preset dataset for a class say (you wanted add more to the description or change a suppliers name) when i save the data manager my data tags in the drawing kind of reset, as well and go blank... I then have to go and manually select all by class and reset the record on the oip data tab, if that makes sense? 

 

I am assuming this will happen a bit in our studio if we are using/building on new products from different suppliers or just having the ability to globally control the data without having to reset all the data tags in the drawing. 

 

Have you experienced this yet? 

 

No I can't say I've experienced this. I have found it all pretty robust to be honest: changes made to the field values in the Data Manager are immediately reflected in the OIP for the object + in turn, if a Data Tag is present, reflected there too. I'm not 100% sure what it is you're describing: are you saying the data in the OIP updates as it should but the tag doesn't? If so, are you changing the way the data is attached to the object so that the Data Tag formula no longer works as it can't find the data in the place you originally told it to look....?

 

The only weirdness I've experienced is when I attempted to switch over a load of existing objects in a file to ones using the data mapping I set up. So I have various Slab styles that are each set up to insert into different classes + then the Data Manager is set up to attach a particular Record to each of those Slabs with a particular set of field values depending on the Slab style (i.e. depending on the class associated with that Slab). All works absolutely fine: I can create new Slabs + the data is correct each time + I can replace one of these Slabs for another + the data updates accordingly. The only issue I had was when I tried to convert my original non-data manager Slabs in a drawing I was working on into my new data-mapping versions: here, the replaced Slab was the correct style + in the correct class but didn't have any of the data attached to it - neither the Record Format nor a data sheet I’d created. I had to mess around with the Data tab settings to first get the data sheet to appear + then after messing around some more I got the record format to appear. It didn’t feel quite right. The behaviour was slightly different each time I tested it. Initially the ‘By Style’ icons were absent then after some messing around they appeared. Going forward I won't be doing this again as I'll be using the new Slab styles every time so although it was a bit weird I'm not overly concerned...

 

But post your file if you like as now after two years of prevaricating I've finally taken the Data Manager plunge I'm keen to learn more... 🙂