Gable roof seam

[Ken]

Here's another old seam problem. Simplified example, viewport, Hidden Line render, on sheet layer, VW2012. How do you eliminate the annoying seam?

[J Lucas]

Very good question!

[willofmaine]

In top/plan view, you could clip each of the two little lower roofs, by something like a sixteenth of an inch (by the length of the overhangs), where they intersect the main roof plane. (If you clip them along their entire ridges, you may end up with vertical (miter) line where the rakes meet at their peaks).

HTH, Will

[Dieter @ DWorks]

Cut out the piece that isn't supposed to be there on the smaller roof.

The line comes from the tip of the small roof, but the bigger roof sits there at that spot, so the smaller one can't be there in real life.

To all people: most of the 'extra' lines in hidden line renders comes from things that aren't drawn correctly or not drawn more to real life. When you see such a line, try to understand what's causing it, adapt your workflow to it and go on. Your workflow will get much better and faster. Don't force the program to suit your workflow, force your workflow to suit the program in some sence. I'm not saying that you can't have preferences on your workflow, but just to let the program do the work for you, even if it's not 100% the way you wanted to be.

Edited October 14, 2011 by DWorks

[Ken]

Yes, the solution seems to be to fudge it, clip it, give it special attention. The extra work is supposed to be "better and faster." :whistle:

But also notice the middle gable does NOT have the same problem! It was created in identical manner.

Go figure!

Maybe best to give ALL THOSE situations special, extra, detailed clipping and fudging work, just to make our workflow BETTER and FASTER. :whistle:

[Dieter @ DWorks]

Just calm down a bit, will you?

We are here to help and if your tone is like this, Many people will stop helping you out. We all have to learn and we better learn from each other. It's the only way to get better. Any program needs learning.

[Ken]

Just calm down a bit, will you?

We are here to help and if your tone is like this, Many people will stop helping you out. We all have to learn and we better learn from each other. It's the only way to get better. Any program needs learning.

Your lack of English comprehension (as you said HERE) is becoming more apparent. It's not about calmness. Maybe you should learn about sarcasm and facetious responses to apologetic reasoning.

It's not about helping me. I'm just pointing out problems in Vectorworks that still exist in the latest 2012 version. You can do whatever you like about it ? ignore it, work around it, fudge it, apologize for it, etc. If nobody else has the same problems, then yes you can go ahead and laugh at me all you want.

[willofmaine]

Ideally the program would be written so that an edge coincident with a plane wouldn't produce a line in a hidden line drawing. Also, ideally, it would be written so that where two planes intersect, a line IS produced in a hidden line drawing. Maybe someday...

The middle gable doesn't have the same problem either because something is ever so slightly off, or, more likely, tomorrow when the Moon and Sun and Stars and what not are aligned differently, it'll have the problem and the lower roof won't!

So, yeah, best to preemptively give "all those situations special, extra, detailed clipping and fudging work."

[Jeffrey W Ouellette]

Also, ideally, it would be written so that where two planes intersect, a line IS produced in a hidden line drawing. Maybe someday...

Well, it does in Hidden Line mode in 2012.

[Jeffrey W Ouellette]

Ideally the program would be written so that an edge coincident with a plane wouldn't produce a line in a hidden line drawing.

This is fixed in 2012, too.

[Dieter @ DWorks]

Ideally the program would be written so that an edge coincident with a plane wouldn't produce a line in a hidden line drawing.

This is fixed in 2012, too.

This was already fine in v2011!

The problem remains with components that have an L-join and a T-join (or Y-join as you call it). There is still a line between them while there shouldn't be one. A workaround for this is using two T-joins, but then the wall components doesn't cut out eachother in 3D, so an extra symbol is needed for that.

Edited October 14, 2011 by DWorks

[willofmaine]

Ideally the program would be written so that an edge coincident with a plane wouldn't produce a line in a hidden line drawing.

This is fixed in 2012, too.

Nice! Is this applicable for solids, too, or just walls?

[willofmaine]

Ideally the program would be written so that an edge coincident with a plane wouldn't produce a line in a hidden line drawing.

This is fixed in 2012, too.

Fixed so that the upper ridge edge of a roof coincident with the plane of another roof disappears in Hidden Line? In 2011 the line shows.

But I see that for walls that it does indeed work well in 2011, except for the "T" intersections as DWorks points out.

[Dieter @ DWorks]

Ideally the program would be written so that an edge coincident with a plane wouldn't produce a line in a hidden line drawing.

This is fixed in 2012, too.

Nice! Is this applicable for solids, too, or just walls?

This is only for structural objects. Objects like walls and floors are structural, but you can set any object to be structural, and if they are set structural, no line will appear between them, great for symbols of kitchen cabinets where you want to show the counter top like one object in hidden line for example.

You'll need to run a script with the object selected to set it to structural. Here are the scripts:

PROCEDURE ToStructuralObject;

VAR
selected : HANDLE;

PROCEDURE SetAsStructural(obj : HANDLE);
BEGIN
	SetObjectVariableBoolean(obj, 702, TRUE);
END;

BEGIN
ForEachObject(SetAsStructural, SEL=TRUE & INSYMBOL & INOBJECT);
END;

Run(ToStructuralObject);

user FALSE for setting it non-structural.

[Ken]

Nice! Is this applicable for solids, too, or just walls?

Aren't you talking about coincident planes (not parallel walls in his examples)? If I understand "coincident," it would be the correct assessment of the underlying problem here. I don't have 2011, but in testing 2012, the new intersecting line is a big welcome.

Coincident objects, however, behave the same (from 2010). I don't understand how difficult it would be for Vectorworks to calculate the viewer's LOCATION while viewing coincident objects ON THE OTHER SIDE of an opaque plane or object.

In other words, if you're on the other side enjoying a smooth flat perfect surface, why you would see what's attached to the object? This would be like clear glass architecture everywhere you go! Maybe we just need the Sun, Moon and Stars to align for our upgrade. :grin:

[Dieter @ DWorks]

Aren't you talking about coincident planes (not parallel walls in his examples)?

Only structural objects will show no line between them, but the faces of those objects need to be in one 3D plane! That's why a y-join shows a line and two t-joins not.

[Ken]

Only structural objects will show no line between them, but the faces of those objects need to be in one 3D plane! That's why a y-join shows a line and two t-joins not.

And so we come back to the initial subject of this discussion ? why isn't a gable roof considered a structural object?

Or maybe it is for the middle gable, but not the lower gable.

[willofmaine]

I don't understand what "structural" has to do with it...

It seems to me that, ideally, hidden line renderings would generate lines where objects intersect each other, and that hidden line renderings wouldn't produce lines where objects are coplanar and/or coincident. This is regardless of the object types, whether they be "structural," extrudes, NURBs curves, solids, etc., and regardless of whether or not they're interacting with the same or other types of objects.

I think the vast majority, if not all, of the Solid Additions I create are for the sole purpose of creating or eliminating lines in hidden line drawings (such as, for example, a door leaf modeled from scratch and made into a solid addition so that the joints between its rails and stiles are not visible...).