Wall with different top heights join funny

[CS1]

Can someone have a look at the attached image and tell me why all my walls are doing this.

I have unticked => Tools > VW Prefs > Edit > Auto-Join walls.

I would expect them to do this if I had used the "T" junction with the "join" tool.

I have even tried the following:

-Group the "odd" wall by itself

-Remove the effected end

-Draw a line inside the group where the face of the higher wall is located

-Extend the lower wall to meet that line

-Delete the line

-Exit the group

-Ungroup

-Fit wall to roof

I get the same result.

Why does the very end face of that wall extend to the upper roof and not the lower face?

The upper roof, although not visible in the image, has an over hang of 1200mm, so I dont understand why its only that small amount of wall that is extending up.

Edited August 28, 2008 by CS1

[brudgers]

Try editing it with the 3d-reshape tool.

[CS1]

I have been going through and removing the problamatic areas, but Im the process of creating a concept model and need to continuely move walls and refit to roof. Why is it doing this in the first case?

[brudgers]

I have been going through and removing the problamatic areas, but Im the process of creating a concept model and need to continuely move walls and refit to roof. Why is it doing this in the first case?

It's Vectorworks.

[CS1]

Haha straight to the point

[CipesDesign]

Unjoin the wall from the perpendicular wall (that's taller). It'll look wrong in plan but it'll be good for the 3d model... So many workarounds, so little time...

[D Wood]

It's to do with Fit Walls To Roof.

The roof above the pink wall will be short of the line of the grey wall by a probably microscopic amount, so the pink wall extends up to both roofs, and the microscopic difference shows up as a sliver of wall.

As Pete Anthony has pointed out in another post on roofs and modelling, you have to use lots of decimal places to avoid this kind of thing. It may appear that the walls and roof share the same line in space, but there will be a minuscule discrepancy somewhere.

[CS1]

Is this a bug? I have dragged the wall to touch the line using the "object" pop-up to confirm this, I havent just dragged the wall using my eyecrometer. If this is how it is supposed to be how are people expected to achieve the correct wall join?

[CipesDesign]

I get what you're saying... Nothing is perfect (especially software!). Yet something just dawned on me as I was looking at your attachment again: you really should unjoin those walls. Because there is a step in the plate height, showing a line there in plan view is actually appropriate (and perhaps more 'standards' correct). So unjoining those walls will actually (I think) solve all the problems in one swell foop ;-)

[D Wood]

One swell foop!!!! I love it.

I assumed CS1 had unjoined the walls. I don't T join walls as a rule any way, unless I have to join components.

CS1, I don't think it's a bug - the program apparently works to a higher degree of accuracy than 2 decimal places, as Pete A has described. Claiming something is a bug when it doesn't work the way you think it should is a Chicken Licken response that is a bit too common on these forums.

The thing is - did our suggestions work and has the wall sliver disappeared?

Edited September 1, 2008 by D Wood

[CS1]

Yeah I have tried to keep the walls seperate, I have unticked the "auto-join walls" option in the prefs. And I have tried to get the lower wall to terminate in the same location as the face of the higher wall. I haven't used the "join wall" tool, I originally tried just dragging the lower wall so it touched the higher wall's face but got the attached result. I then recognized that with the wall touching the other it was making the top extend up, That is why I grouped the wall and used a line as a datum so I could get the wall to terminate in the correct location without snapping to the higher wall.

How are people setting up their walls in models with different top heights without having the odd problem as shown in the image?

[mar schrammeyer]

I see this happening after fit walls to roof command if the roof meets wall correctly it does not happen

[CS1]

Yeah this is when I get problem to.

[brudgers]

Using the auto-join walls is considered a user error.

Geeze....I didn't know the coolaid was that potent.

[D Wood]

Brudgers

I don't consider auto-join walls a user error, I just don't use it myself because

1. it's a hassle if you subsequently move the wall (you have to use the Heal tool as well);

2. the wall as in CS1's case ends at the centre of the cross wall, so of course Fit To Roof isn't going to work the way he thought it would.

[brudgers]

Don't get me started on the fact that the "Wall Heal" tool even exists...it's embarrassing.

Even more than the idea that using auto-join is a hassle.

"Of course it isn't going to work the way he thought it would," is the problem with Vectorworks.

Just more excuses for poor execution.

[CS1]

2. the wall as in CS1's case ends at the centre of the cross wall, so of course Fit To Roof isn't going to work the way he thought it would.

Just to clarify, this isnt how I have joined the walls. At the top of this post I have described how I have got the lower wall to terminate at the face, not the centre of the higher wall as is the case when you use the "T" join tool.

I have attached an image of the two walls, I hope the "selection indication" is visible so you can see how the walls join/dont join.

Edited September 2, 2008 by CS1

[CipesDesign]

CS1, so did you use fit walls to roof??? If so, did you go back and delete the offending vertex (up too high on the lower wall)? Are you still unable to get the thing to render properly?? Mostly curious, but willing to help get your immediate problem solved.

[CS1]

Yeah the problem occurs when the menu command "fit walls to roof" is used.

Deleting the vertex works or trimming the effected end and re-stetching the wall to a datum. The only problem is every time the "fit walls to roof" command is used the problem happens again.

I could understand this problem would occur if say even 0.0000001mm of the lower wall extnded past he face of the higher wall. But I have drawn a line at the face of the wall using the "object" popup so I know its not over the face. Having the wall say 1mm off the face has stopped this from happening for the meantime but I dont like to build my models or plans like this it doesnt seem accurate.

[CipesDesign]

Well, this sounds like a BUG. You should submit it to http://www.nemetschek.net/support/bugsubmit.php

[CS1]

I posted as a bug but havent heard any word yet (not holding my breath).

I certainly hope Im not going to recieve this response which Ive seen on another post:

this is a bug that will be resolved for the upcoming release

[CS1]

Still no feedback...