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Scale a symbol instance

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Do you use sheet layer viewports in your drawings?

Your original post you states you would like to drop a symbol directly onto a sheet layer, then scale it. Why not put the symbol on a design layer, then make a viewport of it on a sheet layer. Then you can scale it to any thing you want.

If you don't use sheet layer viewports create a new layer for details and use scale you want. I realize you stated you don't want to do this but I don't see how it is that painful.

Currently, I draw the detail information on a design layer and set up the viewports and views, crops, etc.

In my opinion, it's extremely cumbersome for something as fundimental to the practice of architeture as putting a detail on a sheet...frankly, it's complete BS.

There's an assinine amount of administrative overhead and coordination...all of which is unnecessary, again in my opinion.

Scaling a symbol would be one way to fix it, allowing a "DLVP" like object (a view of another file) to be placed on a sheet layer would be another...and probably make more sense...but in any event, while managing four or five high level components for each of a hundred architectural details may make sense to you, it don't to me...I guess I'm just dense that way.

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On a design layer and there's no adminstrative efficiency over just drawing on the design layer.

What do you mean by this? Drawing on the design layer is the way the VW works.

Drawing details on a design layer involves administrative overhead.

When the information is linked to the model...this overhead may be worth paying...the benefits of a live section may outweigh the costs of managing drawing complextity.

However, when the information is not linked to the model...such as a standardized detail or one created ad hoc, the entire administrative overhead is a drag on efficiency.

Getting a few lines and text onto a sheet layer shouldn't require anywhere near the complexity of managing a live section...at least that's my opinion.

There should be a relatively simple way of managing a basic non-referenced detail all at once...being able to manage it's content and the composition of the sheet on which it sits in one place.

Many things are part of the model, but every thing isn't.

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Help me understand.

Your method:

Place a symbol where you want it, scale it.

VW's method:

1. Place a symbol on a seperate design layer for details with the proper scale.

2. Place a symbol on a design layer, create a viewport of it at the proper scale, put it where you want on the sheet layer. If you have a lot of detail symbols, put the whole group on a design layer and make a viewport of all of them.

I don't see how VW's methods are complex, inefficient, or BS.

If this is a wish of yours, that's fine, post it on the wish list. I just don't believe anything is wrong or broken here.

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Look at your description of what I want to be able to do.

Now look at your explanation of how to handle details in Vectorworks...number two since I use sheet layers.

Notice a difference in the amount of explanation necessary.

Notice that the Vectorworks method has a contingent workflow based upon the number of details.

Notice that you left out the cropping.

Notice that you left out the annotation.

Call me a fool for prefering simplicity and flexibility.

Edited by brudgers
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Do you realize that you don't have to use sheet layers? Just put all the detail symbols one one (or more) design layers of the appropriate scale and put a title block on a design layer.

If you want to be able to use the Batch Print/PDF commands, just create a saved view.

This should give you exactly what you want without having to mess with any viewports at all.

This is the way all drawings were done prior to VW11.


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Is that method compatible with issue manager?

Nevermind, I see that it is.

I do see that it limits the way in which information can be organized, since I can't combine all the wonders of sheet layer viewports on a sheet with details set up that way.

It's driving me nuts...there's a great and flexible object type, but it can't be scaled...there's a great and flexible way to link external files, but it can't be used on a sheet layer...door identification comes in on "door-spec"...window identification comes in on "none"...there's no logic.

Edited by brudgers
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I was bothered with this specific issue for some time in version 12. I had even tried creating details entirely as annotations within a viewport, so I could scale them. I could then scale the viewport to whatever scale I needed, and have some of the design layer show up behind. Eventually our company settled for creating a single design layer called "details" which was set at 3/4"+1'-0". We realized that 99% of our details could simply be done at this particular scale (residential remodeling) and this solution allowed us to make symbols of our various details as well. But frankly, we found it easier to simply have all the details arrayed in the design layer, so all we had to do was viewport the ones we wanted. All the text was done right there on the detail. No referencing, no additional layers, no worrying about class visibility, no fuss.

I hate to admit it, I would like to have the symbols be scalable. If that were the case, we wouldn't have had to do all that stuff above.

For myself, my wish for VW is to always remember "don't let the tail wag the dog..." If I have to do all this stuff just to present a handful of details, is that really an ideal solution?

(I.E. Sketchup is so successful a 3d program because it is both simple and intuitive. )

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  • 3 weeks later...

I STILL think that it's ridiculous that VW can't scale symbols.

Converting to group defeats the purpose of creating symbols in the first place.

Example: I have created a north arrow symbol and propagated it though my template set (in viewport annotations) so that all I have to do to change the rotation is edit the symbol and all sheets then have correct north arrow rotation. EXCEPT that all viewports aren't the same scale so the north arrow winds up too large or too small.

I could Convert to Group to fix the scale issue but then the arrows aren't symbols anymore so I can't simply edit the symbol to change rotation.

This is a pain.

Symbols should be scalable.

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