3d layerlinks not aligning

[Kurt Magness]

Has anybody had this problem where in a 3d linked layer the layers do not align properly in VWKS 10.1.2 ? Specifically I have a model of a house with ground, walls, and roof layers. The ground layer is 12" too high and the roof layer is 6" to high in the linked layer only. The layers are in there correct heights in the actual model. I have tried to erase the linked layer and create a new one but each time it does not align properly. Suggestions ? This file started out as a 2d file in VWKS 9.5.3

Kurt

Mac OS 10.2.5

Vwks 10.1.2

G4 dual 1 mhz w/ 768 mb ram

[P Retondo]

This might have to do with the "Z elevation" setting in your layers. Frankly, I've never understood how that feature works exactly, or why it's there. To fix your problem, I would just do a 3d move of the misaligned layer links so that things are right, and leave it at that!

[Guest]

z is where in the elevation the layer will start

delta z is the thickness of that layer.

Say you have 3 floors (no slab) and a roof. Each floor has a wall height of 8'.

The z and delta z values are as follows -

Layer 1

z = 0

delta z = 8' (for the walls)

Layer 2

z = 8' (the second floor is going to start 8' above floor one becuase the walls on floor 1 are 8')

delta z = 8' - the walls are still only 8' high

Layer 3

z = 16' (8' above where layer 2 started because layer 2 has 8' walls and starts at 8')

delta z = 8'

Roof

z = 24'

delta z = whatever this can be 0 even if you aren't putting anything over your roof.

How is this information critical?

When creating layer links, the z values of the layers determine where in the elevation the data on those layers goes.

The layer link is only one layer and needs to know where stuff goes, so it 'fits' in the alignment.

If you have a gap between floor 1 and floor 2 - either the delta z for Floor 1 is incorrect, or the z value for Floor 2 is incorrect.

The same is true if your floor 2 smooshes your floor 1.

When looking at the individual layers, no matter what the z value of those layers, the objects should sit right on the ground plane for most instances.

If it sits above the ground plane, that space is accounted for when the Layer Links are created.

This may also be the root cause of the problem.

The space is accounted for because the ground plane z = 0 relative to the layer z value. The gound plane isn't 0 constantly. It's reset for each layer. The layer links don't take the z value of the obejcts ,/i> when created, it takes the z value of the layer instead.

Does that help clear stuff up, or did I make it a million times more confusing .. ?

[Kurt Magness]

P Retondo & Katie:

Thanks for the info. it was the z & delta z values in the layers setup although I have no idea how the layers got those values. Katie your message was somewhat obtuse but I got your drift. After I reset the z values to what I wanted, I erased the old layer link and created a new one which renders correctly now.

Thanks

[P Retondo]

Katie, thanks for your reply. You actually did clear up a couple of things, but I have some questions remaining:

1 - in a layer with z = 10', will an extrusion created from the ground plane have a bottom z value = 0 when viewed in that layer? And only a z = 10' when viewed in the "Model" layer?

2 - when you change the z value of a layer, what happens to objects already in that layer a) vis a vis the original layer, and b) in the model layer?

3 - why does VW sometimes automatically assign a z value when a new layer is created? This is what happened, I think, to cause the complaint that started this thread.

4 - is there anything special about the "Model" layer that causes layer links to be displayed according to layer z, or will a link in any old layer have that behavior?

Frankly, I avoid all confusion and maintain control by setting all layer z's to zero (requiring that I check them frequently to see if VW has spontaneously thwarted me), and move objects up or down to create different building levels. That way, I can change a floor level, which one frequently needs to do. As I understand it, the answer to question 2 above is that when you change a layer's z, nothing happens to objects and layer links already created.

[zero]

Hey P

Your approach to setting layrez = 0 to all layers, then adjusting the wall heights manually is how I do it too.

It's the only way to keep track of everything I find.

I cannot understand why you must link layers before the layer z value has any "meaning", and this was a source of confusion for me when I was first learning VW.

Mat

[Kristen]

Personally, I like the z and delta z layer settings. They make setting up multi floor layer links much simpler.

1 - yes, when you're working in a layer the base shows as z=0 (your hypothetical extrusion would show a bottom value of 0 in its home layer). The layer's z setting would only show when it was linked in another layer.

2 - when you change a layer's z value, nothing happens to the objects in the layer. However, nothing happens to the layer link, either -- it stays at it's previous z setting. You have to delete the link and relink it to show the new z value. That's really my only complaint about the system.

3 - when you create a layer with a z and a delta z, the next layer you create will automatically have a z value that is the sum of the two. For example, if your 2nd floor layer has a z value of 12' and a delta z of 10', when you create your 3rd floor layer, it will automatically have a z value of 22'.

4 - any layer link will use z and delta z

[Biplab]

Problem 2 mentioned in Kristen's mail will be fixed in a future release.

[Guest]

zero,

I think the theory is that you are only going to really view the layers according to their z values in a layer link. Generally you don't just look at a layer and notice it floating above or below the ground plane. Most people like to look at the layer objects sitting on the ground plane.

Not only that, but moving something by entering in the z value for an object in the OIP palette can be difficult if the base of the layer is not a dummy 0. If the base of your layer is 13'5 3/8" and you want to move an object so it sits 2'1 3/5" above the ground, you have to do the math. When the gound of the layer is set to the dummy 0, all you have to do is type in the 2'1 3/5" ..

Also, using the flyover tool when stuff isn't sitting on the ground plane can be difficult to keep in the window view. When it's on the ground, flyover tool allows you to select rotate about the ground plane .. making it so much easier to fly around.

[ 09-08-2003, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: Katie ]

[Guest]

i think once yall get the hang of z and delta z values of the layers and their purpose within layer linking, you'll find things like drawing walls a whole lot easier. The height of the wall and the base line the walls is drawn on for the various layers is all set for you .. all you have to do is draw the wall.

You don't have to move the wall up in z height, you don't have to type in the delta z for the wall.. etc.

[P Retondo]

Katie, Kristen and others, thanks for all the input. I may try the layer z system on my next project. But I have a couple of complaints: one is mentioned by Kristen - if you change the z value you have to reinsert the link to get it to update in the model layer. (It might be useful if changing the delta z also modified all walls with that height, leaving all other walls untouched.)

My other complaint is the automatic entering of z and delta z values. That is possibly convenient for someone doing a very simple multi-story building, but it is nothing but a frustrating annoyance and a source of error for me, and, I suspect, for most others. It never works to take control away from the user! There are reasons for creating new layers other than creating a plan layer for the next story!

By the way, this automated tampering with layer z value seems to occur whenever I cut a section through a model. It doesn't follow from any deliberate act on my part.

[ 09-10-2003, 12:19 AM: Message edited by: P Retondo ]

[Biplab]

As I mentioned before, your first problem should be fixed in VW10.5

[Guest]

Pete,

You don't have to have the setup asst make the walls the height of the layers for you. It's a check mark option in the setup steps (model setup).

"Use layer height" i think is what it is called in Model setup.

[Kristen]

I think what he means is that if you change a floor to floor height (delta z) from, say, 10' to 12', that all the walls that had been originally drawn at 10' would automatically update to 12'. Maybe have a "Use delta z for wall height" check box in the wall OIP. That would be great.

[P Retondo]

Thanks, Biplap. It's always great to see progress!