v13 Wall Components: ability to set line, style or colour by Class

[Christiaan]

I'd like the line, style and colour drop-down menus in the Component Attributes editing window to include the ability to set individually by Class, just as we can in the Attributes Palette for any object.

This will allow us to create Wall Styles, as we did in v12, where the Components are on the same Class (and use the same Class colour setting, so it can be overridden in a Viewport) as the Wall itself but can have different line thicknesses than the outer lines of the wall itself. All without resorting to extra Classes for each wall of a different colour.

I've attached existing and proposed images to illustrate what I'm proposing. For me, this aspect of Wall Styles has been a regression from v12 so it's more a bug submit than a feature request.

For discussion on this topic see:

http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=88821

Note: I will be using the ability to give components different Classes, but I only need this capability for wall finishes.

[Petri]

Sounds good.

[Christiaan]

Well, between you, me and VectorGeek, that makes 3 people in the whole world who understand this little problem.

[Chris D]

I think I understood your problem...eventually, but didn't support the proposed change, which seemed insignificant, but if it's causing major problems with existing files, as well as the loss of capability, you can count me in.

[Christiaan]

Yah, the penny is starting to drop. Welcome aboard.

[Chris D]

oh....but I still want the class style tick where it is at the moment AS WELL (i.e. I don't want to have to make 3 class style selections for each component instead of 1 - we class all materials and wall components here.)

[Christiaan]

Me too. And if you choose to manually change one of the attributes while that option is checked I would expect it to automatically uncheck while leaving the other two attributes on Class setting.

[Guest]

So, just to be clear, you want an identical subset of the Attribute palette in the edit dialog. Is this correct?

(I didn't quite get a definitive response on the other forums when I asked this)

You also still want the check mark box that says "Use Class", correct?

Would you want to manage both settings, or either or? And which one sets precedence?

[Christiaan]

Yes and yes. In terms of management I would expect one to dynamically affect the other. So if you click the check button to set by Class overall it would switch all three Attributes to Class. If you then change one of the Attributes manually to another value the overall button would uncheck and the other two Attributes would remain set by Class.

[Guest]

And this doesn't seem redundant to you?

[Guest]

And thank you for clarifying.

[Christiaan]

Of course not. I thought I'd been very clear that it is in fact crucial to our workflow. The extra Classes that I'd need to create in order to retain this v12 functionality in v13 are what is redundant.

As an example, open the attached v12 file in v12. You will see that the components are one colour in the Design Layer (red) and one colour in the Viewport (blue) and that the outer lines of the wall are thicker than the component lines.

Now convert and open the same file in v13. You will see that the wall component colours are now missing, so our v12 files no longer look the same once converted to v13.

The logical solution to this bug, in my opinion, is to add the ability to set Class for each attribute in the Component Attributes editing window.

Edited October 18, 2007 by Christiaan

[islandmon]

Christiaan ... I sure hope NNA recognizes your firm commitment to their excellence.

Your ability to dissect and then investigate these very specific application functions and interface issues astounds me ...

people like me just accept the limitations and make the best of them regardless.

You, too, Mr. Chris D JobRunner .. you guys are kindred Quality Control Spirits...

bordering on being Quality Control Freaks ; )

[Christiaan]

Maybe they should give me a job.

Quality Control Spirits. Ha, I like that.

[Christiaan]

Here's another possible way to overcome this bug:

If you're in the Edit Wall Style window in v13 and then click on Edit Wall Attributes you could have a set of Component Attribute Overrides, that allow you to override the component class attributes. So, say, you could override the component colour to use the main wall class colour instead.

The beauty of this method is that you could have all of the following at once:

1) The ability to match your component colours with your main wall colour even if the components are on a separate Class. (currently, for instance, if you use a separate class for a component such as blockwork, and set colour by Class, it will be the same colour across all wall types regardless of what your outer wall line colours are.)

2) The ability to override this colour in Viewports

3) The ability to set line thickness of components independently of Class

What this method overcomes compared to my initial proposal is that you don't have to have your components on the same Class as your outer wall lines to make them same (classed) colour. This, it seems to me, is maybe more in tune with the v13 way of doing things.

The only problem is I can't conceptually work out whether the hierarchy will actually work correctly without breaking things.

[Petri]

The concept (maybe even applicable code?) already exists in Viewports. The user interface could be similar to VPs.

Perhaps some override settings should/could even be global

(i) for all wall styles,

(ii) for one wall style?

[Christiaan]

Very disappointed this bugfix didn't make it into VW 2008 SP2. We're still in the position of not being able to use colour with our wall components without creating extra classes.

How difficult could it be to add Class settings to these attributes controls? Surely it was more difficult removing them in the first place?

[Christiaan]

Still not fixed in SP3.