Help request for modelling 'complex' form

[Justin21]

Hi everyone!

 

I would appreciate your help in improving my workflow, and your advice on troubleshooting where I'm stuck.  

I'm new to Vectorworks and have been learning it slowly, while in school, over the past few months. A reduced version of my file is attached, and the screenshot below shows an overview of the project: a curving roof form meeting an existing building (middle). I've managed a version of it with thickness (left) and some beam profiles modelled using extrude-along-path (right). 

 

 

Here is a rundown of my workflow so far: 

1. Use nurbs surface to figure out the approximate form (heights+slopes)

2. Trim surface to the correct "footprint" I need

3. Create nurbs curves along each gridline

4. Loft curves to create "cleaner" form/surface. 

5a. Extrude surfaces for initial solid

5b. Various iterations of add/subtract/intersect solids

6. Fillet edge the intersection of new roof to existing structure

7. Extract and extrude new surfaces

8. Create new curves along each gridline and extrude path for beams

 

Where I am stuck:

As you can see from the photo, I didn't originally fillet edge the intersection on the "short edge" of the building, but now I want to. I can't seem to get it to work, and upon investigation, I think it may be because of the initial inaccuracies in my modelling of the the surfaces, where not all edges align properly. Another issue I thought it might be, is that there are some short edges for the fillet edge tool, and maybe it's not able to compute those (?).

 

Please advise on how I could do this better overall nexttime (or to fix this one if the better way isn't too time intensive), and how to best approach fixing the "non-filleting" edge of the roof. 

 

Thank you very much!

Justin

 

(ps. apologies if anything is poorly explained—been staring at this for too long)

 

 

JD-VW_help.vwx

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

You have done some really nice work here.  For a novice, you have a good aptitude for 3D modelling,  Your beams are excellent.

 

But, there is a process for mixing and matching Booleans, Surface modelling, NURBS curves, etc.   Not your fault, this is not laid out anywhere.

 

This is interesting, so I am sure the usual suspects will be all over this.  I am knocking off for the evening, but will have a look tomorrow morning.  There are a few ways to this and others will. have good advice.

 

regards....Paul

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

As I said in my first post, your 3D instincts are good.  You can't teach that.  Having said that, I think you pushed as far as you could with this before the NURBS math did not work anymore.

Although many of the various 3D tools interact correctly on the first try, complex models need to be thought out.  For example, do all your fillets at the end.

 

Look at the images below, if this is what you want, I can post the file in whatever version of Vectorworks you are using.

 

 

[Justin21]

Hi Paul,

 

Thank you for your feedback and for working out a potential solution. That is indeed look close to what I was trying to achieve. I think the only differences would be the radii of the fillets.

 

Could you explain what order you did things in to resolve the fillet issue? Also, am I mistaken or does the fillet edge only work on solids? It look like yours is directly as surfaces (?), or did you just extract the surfaces at the end? 

 

I would definitely appreciate a copy of the file to examine more closely. I'm using VW2024.

 

Thank you,

Justin

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

HI Justin.  VW file enclosed.   

I did not do this in any traditional Vectorworks methodology.   It would not make any sense to try and explain this in a text format.

First of all, I did not use Fillet Edge anywhere.  I did try to modify your work (good work), but you had dug a pretty deep "abyss of no return".

 

So, explaining what I did would not help you in the future.  Below is a link to one of my channels.  It has a lot of NURBS tutorials on it.  They range from 5 minutes to 20 minutes.  I would look at the shorter ones first, but the longer "Chair" and "Bike Pulley Wheel" are more complex.

 

Vectorworks NURBS Modelling channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHhEwTXToBEN5A_S4UAyHGw

 

ROOF LINE

ROOF LINE.vwx

[Justin21]

Thanks Paul, I will check it out. 

 

If anyone else happens to have any suggestions on how I may remedy the situation that would be appreciated. I have back copies of the various iterations of the roof form, but I'm running out of time to hunt through them for something that might work. I realize there's probably not any straightforward solution either. 

 

On the other hand, general tips for the overall order of approaching this design challenge would be helpful in addition to Paul's videos. 

 

Thanks again!

Justin 

[Jeff Prince]

4 hours ago, Justin21 said:

On the other hand, general tips for the overall order of approaching this design challenge would be helpful

 

It helps to know what is driving the design, or why it is shaped the way it is.

Oftentimes, this reveals the easiest path to modeling it and establishing the pieces that may be required for future revisions.

 

When I look at the image in your post, I have no idea what the design is trying to achieve aesthetically or structurally.  No idea of the scale or purpose.

So, it's hard to recommend a best method of modeling.  Also, why are your beams all running in the same direction?  Shouldn't the leftmost roof have them perpendicular to the building like the other two sides?  It's stuff like this that governs the easiest path to making the form.

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

Hi Justin, (Roof Line explanation below)

My esteemed colleague has a point.  What the end goal is and how you approached the solution is unclear.  But, I was a student also and remember similar problems....on a board.

As I am not an architect, I can only help in the modelling aspect.  I was assuming this would have been a popular topic, but I suppose most realized that you had reached the end of what you could do with the path you had chosen.  Still, good work to that point.

 

Below is the methodology I used to create the roof line fillet.