Landmark- hatches, tiles, plants etc

[ColleysGarden]

Hi.  Considering Landmark is geared towards the landscape design industry there is very limited material available in Vectorworks itself for representation of different materials, plants etc.  When creating sections etc the hatches and tiles available are limited.  

 

The plants available are also limited in those specific to the UK.  Even those you can buy are very limited.  

 

Are there any plans to improve these?

 

Thanks.

[Katarina Ollikainen]

Hi @ColleysGarden, do you have any suggestions on what you would like to see? The content available right now is what our users have asked for, but if you have specific requirements, please send them to me. We're constantly updating our libraries and the content team is very happy to get concrete suggestions on what to include.

The one thing difficult to address as a texture is if you want the zig-zag line for the sub-base which is standard in the UK. However, this is easily done with a line type. Let me know if you want some directions.

 

We have a plant library (2D) with 1400 plants, specifically made for the UK climate (see image). We're also working on extending the 3D library from Laubwerk to include more species. Are you looking for 2D species-specific data or 3D illustrations?

There are a lot of changes coming to the plant tool but they're quite deep-reaching, so will require a lot of development before they're ready to be released - can't say more at the moment, but rest assured that this is a high priority.

[Amanda McDermott]

Something we'd put on the list is better/more variety and flexibility of 'plant line' for surrounding landscape areas, and that the fill colour would go right up to the line...

 

NB. We tried out the Laubwerk plants and found they made the files so huge and clunky that we've not bothered with them - even when viewing in the simple mode, having the content available makes the file massive and slow!

[Helen Palmer]

I would agree with Amanda above. The plant line is so dreadful it's unusable. There are many other types of software which draw landscape areas better than Vectorworks. My old fashioned hand drawing is better!  Please create something better that we can actually use! 

And some standard black and white plant images would be helpful.  Large drawings covered in lots of very small individual coloured plants (which don't mass properly) are not readable by contractors and do not look good. They may be ok for small gardens viewed at 1:10 scale but not large landscape plans.  And yes I know I can create my own but I really don't have the time to do that. 

[Katarina Ollikainen]

@Amanda McDermott, @Helen Palmer - Okay, so better plant lines - do you have examples of what you're looking for? It's difficult to know what a 'better-than-dreadful' would look like - I personally like the plant line as it is and have had very good results using it (IMHO). However, I don't use it on the landscape area itself, as you currently get the gaps you're mentioning. Knowing exactly what in the existing plant line/plant cloud you don't like would also be beneficial.

We've already started work on the functional improvements of the plant line in connection to the landscape area, but I am interested in knowing more about what you would like the actual lines to look like.

I understand that you can draw nicer plant lines by hand - to recreate the hand-drawn look is 'the dream', with its not-so-perfect look and non-repetitiveness.

17 hours ago, Helen Palmer said:

Large drawings covered in lots of very small individual coloured plants (which don't mass properly) are not readable by contractors and do not look good.

Have you tried the new massplant settings from 2023? If this isn't good enough, what is it you're missing? I've attached a sample below, with the reworked mass planting active. 

17 hours ago, Helen Palmer said:

And some standard black and white plant images would be helpful

You can replace the symbols with a set of B/W symbols in the Vectorworks library. We can't supply the same plants with several different 'looks' - that would balloon the libraries massively, and most users that prefer B/W have made their own highly specialised plant library anyway. I do understand your desire for simpler plant symbols - we're working on something that will make this much easier - I can't say more now.

On 10/16/2023 at 10:50 AM, Amanda McDermott said:

We tried out the Laubwerk plants and found they made the files so huge and clunky that we've not bothered with them

I agree - the Laubwerk plants are bigger, but the graphics card usually creates most of the problems. Compare the two last images - the first has only three trees (Laubwerk), and the second has over 5500 - the file size difference is not very big. You get a 'starting size' of the plant but not a huge increase for each instance of the plant. However, the size of the image props varies widely as well, so if you're concerned about the file size, this can also be worth checking.

[bob cleaver]

I like the plant massing techniques in the VW supplied landscape file enclosed below 

This file has many terrific landscape techniques etc - 

riverwood-townhomes-project.vwx

[Amanda McDermott]

Hi Katarina,

 

Thanks for asking - I've done a little mock up that shows some of the issues:

 

 

1. We'd like ideally to be able to use line types with polygons, so that we don't need to have everything as a landscape area if we're just doing a sketch.

2. We'd like to be able to create our own line types and have the colour fill to the edges, both for polygons and landscape areas.

3. We'd like a toggle option for the extent to which the plant line follows the shape, and whether it shows entirely inside/entirely outside/crossing the true shape boundary. At the moment if we want a plant line to follow the shape boundary at all accurately we have to use the shorter/thinner settings, which sometimes isn't the aesthetic we want, especially at different scales.

4. We'd like the option for the graphic to appear the same on the page at different scales - toggle 'set plant line by document units/page units', perhaps?

5. We'd like the plant line to look the same whether on a curve or a straight edge.

6. When landscape areas/polygons are next to each other, we'd like the option for their plant line edges to meet exactly.

 

I may think of more, but this should keep you going for now! 😂

 

 

 

[Amanda McDermott]

22 hours ago, Katarina Ollikainen said:

I agree - the Laubwerk plants are bigger, but the graphics card usually creates most of the problems. Compare the two last images - the first has only three trees (Laubwerk), and the second has over 5500 - the file size difference is not very big. You get a 'starting size' of the plant but not a huge increase for each instance of the plant. However, the size of the image props varies widely as well, so if you're concerned about the file size, this can also be worth checking.

This is interesting to note, and that it depends what species you choose. I don't think we'll be starting to use them any time soon though, our planting plans often have many dozens of species, which really adds up...

Edited October 19, 2023 by Amanda McDermott

[Amanda McDermott]

p.s. this image shows the clash we don't like when we have areas that abut...

[Amanda McDermott]

This shows what we'd like to be able to make certain landscape areas look like (created by placing plants individually, editing the transparency of the symbol, and using the plant grouping graphics), vs what we can achieve using landscape area showing plants in 2D.

We don't want to be placing plants by hand for e.g. large areas of woodland, but would like to be able to produce a graphic like the one on the left. Ideally with ability to then go in and tweak plant placement!

[ColleysGarden]

Yes, I agree with Amanda.  The plant massing outline would be helpful.

 

For the texture beds etc, when you're working on a project that is not straightforward and flat especially, for example wilder gardens; You have a simple turf grass overlay but there is nothing like a dunescape with Marram (Ammophila arenaria) or dune texture bed or a wild meadow and like I said, a huge gap in British flora but an abundance of Australian or American species.  The ornamental grass 2d/3d representation is also very limited e.g. commonly used grasses such as Stipa gigantea or Anemanthele lessoniana etc.  

 

I also bought Vectorworks for the 3d landscape value but to be honest it is proving to be quite complicated.  Moulding the landscape is not very straightforward and there are a lack of tutorials available.  There is only one short video on the new drape system and this would have been very useful tool if I could work out how to use it properly for the soft landscaping and textures.  The image textures aren't showing up in 3d.  If there were more site modelling tutorials available that would be great working from novice up to more complex.  I've already done quite a few but not quite got there.  Changing contours etc is proving to be quite complex.

 

Thank you.