HELP - what has replaced the Create Objects from Shapes/Site Modifier/Contour feature?

[Phillip Tripp]

In VW 2022, we used (Create Objects from Shapes - Site Modifier - Contour) feature when we wanted to force a specific line to be a proposed contour in a site model.  This was a helpful feature when working collaboratively with a civil engineer who might be responsible for stormwater management device new contours and our landscape architecture office would be responsible for new contours in other areas of the site.  When we received the new contours from the civil, we would use this command to make their contours (contour site modifiers) and the model would update with contours almost exactly matching those contour lines in 99% of the cases.  The effort involved was limited to assigning the correct elevation to the lines, but otherwise the process was straight forward.  Also having their contours treated as site modifiers allowed us to continue using other site modifiers and not override their contours because their contours were also site modifiers. 

 

In VW 2023, "Contour" is no longer an option in the (Create Objects from Shapes - Site Modifier) drop-down menu.  How do we add new contour data from other consultants to our proposed site model and have our proposed site model illustrate their new contours exactly?  Ideally with as little effort as was required in VW 2022.

 

[Tom W.]

The name has changed to 'Open Edge Line'. 

[Phillip Tripp]

That seems to not work the same as VW 2022 Contour Site Modifier.  In VW 2022, Contour Site Modifier usually forced the site model to draw the contour where the contour site modifier was drawn.  In VW 2023, the model interprets and we get mixed results (see Katarina's response below).  We cannot have mixed results when we want to tell the site model to draw a contour in a specific location per a specific line.  And we certainly can't explain to another professional office that we can't produce a model with contours matching their contours because VW dropped a feature.  When I refer to contour, I mean a line with a whole number elevation assigned to it that should appear exactly in the spot designated, because the model illustrates whole number contours.  Stating that to avoid any misunderstanding with Katarina's comment about site model settings determine what intervals contours appear at.

 

Katarina Ollikainen, VW employee, shared the following on the forums:  “If you have precise contours you want to have in the site model, then by all means, use the open edge modifier, but remember that the site model settings will determine at what intervals you will see contours. If there are some contours you want to adjust at the end, then go into the 'Edit proposed Contours', but this is not an efficient workflow to start with.”

[Phillip Tripp]

Amending my concern, the issue appears to be related to the first or last desired contour in a series of proposed contour lines or the one contour in cases of a singular desired new contour.  In these instances, the Open Edge Line modifier resorts to interpreting rather than implementing a contour at that designated location.  We happened to be dealing with a vary flat area where singular contour edits were desired in several locations that triggered this feature quirk discussion. 

[Tom W.]

8 hours ago, Phillip Tripp said:

That seems to not work the same as VW 2022 Contour Site Modifier. 

 

In that case apologies. I am pretty sure I heard @Katarina Ollikainen say in a video the tool itself was unchanged, just been renamed to more accurately reflect its function, but obviously not...

[Katarina Ollikainen]

13 hours ago, Phillip Tripp said:

In VW 2022, Contour Site Modifier usually forced the site model to draw the contour where the contour site modifier was drawn.

@Phillip Tripp - Please let me know if I'm misunderstanding you, but the contours of the site model are calculated and do not depend on where you place a site modifier. If this was the case, you could only place contour modifiers at the intervals specified in the site model settings. The contour modifier could also have a slope - this is why we changed the name of it - a map contour can only be a single elevation. I believe that if you see a difference in the function, it might be because of the new site model setup and calculations. I'm checking with the engineers and will come back to you on this.

If you want a contour at a very specific position, a trick is to duplicate it and place them just a few millimetre apart - this will change the calculation of where exactly this contour is placed. However, this is only possible to do when the contour has an elevation that coincides with the site model interval setting.

 

 

[Katarina Ollikainen]

However, the result will also depend on the distance between triangulation points in the site model source data. The other way to do this is to place a grade limit around the area you want to adjust the contour and set it to 'Define by Contours'. This allows you to adjust the contours in that area very precisely.

[Katarina Ollikainen]

@Phillip Tripp Ok, so I've asked Bobi how the modifier used to work and how it has changed in 2023. This is what he says regarding the contour in snapping mode in 2022:

 

It must be drawn on the elevation of an already existing contour so it could be expected that (after update) this site model contour will change to follow the Contour modifier. That is why the site modifier tool in Contour mode has a 'Snap to Contour Elevation' mode to help drawing the Contour modifier along/'touching' a site model contour:

However, even though the Contour modifier is correctly drawn along a site model contour, the change in the model contour (to follow the Contour modifier) is not guaranteed both in 2022 and in 2023 and depends a lot on the local TIN there. Because of this, we started thinking about other options, such as the Edit Contour modes (which work much better, and much predictably, but still there are cases they fail) and Site Grading (defined by contours Grade Limits) which is the best option for now.

 

So, to conclude - the function hasn't changed, and if you have situations when you must have the contour to follow a specific path - use the grade limit in 'Define by contours' setting or use the Edit contours mode.

[Phillip Tripp]

Thank you for the effort in follow ups.  I was able to visually demonstrate the change in behavior with VW staff this morning between 2022 and 2023.  I used the exact same new contour lines in 2022 and 2023 (contours vs open edge lines), all based on the same existing contours, using a simple 100x100 feet model with simple shaped contour lines in an attempt to eliminate any odd unique conditions that might impact results.  VW 2022 works great and as expected (model exactly matches desired contours) and VW 2023 mishandles the last contour in a series of contours or mishandles a single isolated contour.  The reason I use the word "mishandles" is the model re-interprets the contour line we must exactly match because the contour line is coming from another consultant of the client.  In a collaborative, multi-year project where we are receiving files from other consultants with changes every two weeks, with revised contours covering multiple acres, we cannot spend time adjusting contours afterwards because VW site model wants to reinterpret contour data received from others.  To be clear, I am referring to straight line contours (open edge line) being ignored, not complex multi vertices lines where simplification has an impact.  We have our own scope of work to focus on and cannot spend time re-drawing the work of others to maintain consistency of contractual drawings which is why it has a real impact on our office.  I have passed along the example files to VW for further review.  Thanks again for feedback.