jnr Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 Hey Matt: Win 2k, 2gighz, 512 mb ram,dell, matrox g450 dual head w two dell monitors. New machine because you made me up grade. Vectorworks 9.01 architect is randomly crashing without any consistent pattern of command, zoom, etc. One time out of three get this, Vectorworks simply disappears. No warning, no message,no nothing! I spoke to another user who has experienced this exact same phenomenon about once a day on a Mac except using Landmark (how different are they really). This is getting old. Any ideas? Thanks -J Quote Link to comment
Matthew Giampapa Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 Well I didn't mean to "make" you upgrade, but I'm sure you will get a lot out of the new system. As for the crashing, under Win 2k, the program should never just terminate without a message. If this is the same problem you were having on the old machine I have to assume that there is something in common here. I apologize if the following seems rather general, but "random" crashing without an error message is hard to diagnose. What software have you installed on this machine that was also on the old one? Did you reuse the old hard disk and upgrade it to Windows 2000? I would first try to see if the problem is just in the one file or not. I would create a completely blank new file (not based on a template) and see if the problem happens there as well. It could simply be a bad file or object in the file. Have you installed any custom fonts onto the system yet? Are you running VectorWorks as an Administrative user? Is QuickTime 4.1.2 or higher installed? Do you have a default printer installed and selected? Any debugging software or MS development tools? Latest video drivers from Matrox and BIOS from dell? Is Win2K Service Pack 2 installed? That all that comes of the top of my head, if you can narrow down the problem some we will have a better shot at fixing it. Matthew GiampapaTechnical Support quote: Originally posted by jnr: Hey Matt:Win 2k, 2gighz, 512 mb ram,dell, matrox g450 dual head w two dell monitors. New machine because you made me up grade. Vectorworks 9.01 architect is randomly crashing without any consistent pattern of command, zoom, etc. One time out of three get this, Vectorworks simply disappears. No warning, no message,no nothing! I spoke to another user who has experienced this exact same phenomenon about once a day on a Mac except using Landmark (how different are they really). This is getting old. Any ideas? Thanks -J Quote Link to comment
Guest Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 You might try the VW9.5b7 beta and see if that helps. VW can quit silently in certain situations (possibly including an extreme out-of-memory situation, but i wouldn't expect that to be a problem in Win2K). The only place i know about where this used to happen is DXF, but you should get an alert now. Quote Link to comment
jnr Posted November 9, 2001 Author Share Posted November 9, 2001 When it rains it pours. You seem to have a lot of tricks up your sleeve. Let me see if I can answer your barrage. I had to upgrade because win 98se and VWA 9.01 don't think to much of each other, unless you like Chinese water torture. Unfortunately VWA does "disappear" (crash), but only in W2K. I don't use the win98 machine anymore. The file in question has been copied many times (different versions of a house I'm working on) and originated in 9.01 on win 98se. I'm about to redraw the entire thing on the win 2k machine for reasons other than crashes. I've come not to trust my Vectorworks files after multiple "save as"s. I will try to see if I can pull a "full Houdini" with this new file in win 2k. This is a brand spankin' new dell workstation with 512k ram and a 2ghz P4 with a 21"dell and a 19" dell on a a matrox g450 dual head card @32mb. No reuse of hard anything, or upgrades. Operating system: win 2k service pak 2 Software I have installed:Vectorworks architectAdobe photoshop 6.0Adobe acrobat 4.1Adobe type manager deluxe 4.1Quark 4.11Logitech cordless mouse (current driver) Crap installed by Dell: Microsoft office xpRoxio ease CD creator 5Norton antivirusIntegrated Yamaha softsynthesizer I have been logging on as an administrative user. Default printer is an HP 1220c/ps with a 500ps plotter hanging off another w2k dell over the network. (text in the file in question looks like a 10 car pile-up on the BW parkway when plotted [yes I'm nearby]). By the way, when I go into the task manager and shut off processes running the CD creator, it seems to be less prone to crash. However, one does not have MS config to use to turn off all of the garbage running in the background. For some reason Gates took it out of 2000. I was told by a Dell tech that I could copy it from win 98se to 2K, but this scares me to death. I've already re-formatted one machine and don't feel like doing it again anytime soon. So, let me know if there is anything in all of this that helps. While you're at it you might as well file all this info into my record so that I don't have to go through all this again the next time I call. I'm assuming you can cross reference my memebership with everything else you know about me. Quote Link to comment
jnr Posted November 9, 2001 Author Share Posted November 9, 2001 Uh, the reply above is for Matt the "wondertech" Giampappa. Quote Link to comment
jnr Posted November 9, 2001 Author Share Posted November 9, 2001 Jodawi: Thanks for the tip, however I feel like I have been beta testing ever since I bought 9.0. Needless to say, I wish I had the energy and the time to try it, but since I have spent entirely way too much time trying to get the software to behave, I'm a little gun shy. Quote Link to comment
Matthew Giampapa Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 Jnr, Sorry to keep you waiting, I have a tendency of checking the Architect boards after the General board and free time is a bit scarce on Fridays. The text problem sounds like a problem we have had with rotated text and postscript devices. Try the disable driver text rotation box on the print dialog, or install the HPGL2 driver from HP and use that. (Windows 2000 is nice that it will let you have multiple instances of the same printer with different drivers) Easy CD creator 5 has some huge compatibility problems with Windows 2000 in it's unpatched form. I have lost data at home because of it. Make sure you have it patched to 5.02b or newer (ftp://ftp.roxio.com/roxio/cd_recording_software/also/ecdc_v502b_up.exe). In my experience that version is quite stable. MS Config made another appearance in XP, if your going to try and salvage a copy from another machine I would start with that version. At least Win2K and XP are from the same family tree. I would try running without Adobe Type manager if it is at all possible. We have had a huge number of people on the Mac have problems with that version of ATM. Until now I did not know they even had a windows version. If the past is anything to judge by, ATM may very well be the culprit, it does some questionable things behind the scenes to work its little tricks. As far as the Logitech mouse, the only problem I know of there is if you have the snap to dialog feature enabled (I don't know the real name of this, I've had it turned off for so long). If you have it on, whenever the object info pallet comes up or refreshed, it thinks it is a new dialog and moves the cursor to it. If you want to do the same thing as MSCONFIG for your startup items, check the registry key "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run" and "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run". As always, make a backup of anything you change in the Registry before you play with it. You can do serious damage here. Generally we also recommend that you have QuickTime 4.1.2 or later installed. 5.0.2 will also work. (If you also have VW8, you will need to do a custom install and add the QuickDraw 3D component if you go with 5.0.2) John is right, very low memory situations can cause problems like that. I would open up the task manager and put it in the system tray while you work on VectorWorks. If it crashes, check the memory use history and see if it spikes at a high number around the time of the crash. If this is the case, Windows may not be resizing your swap file when it needs to. Typically Win2K will prompt you before it does this. If you suspect it is not, you can force the swap file to a lager size by right clicking on My Computer and going into properties. Check on the advanced tab, thou it may be under Performance. Chances are you new computer has more hard disk space than any mortal can use. I would not hesitate to set this as high as 2 gigs if I suspected it was the problem and I had the extra space. I hope that helps, and I wish I could give some more definitive answers here. I suppose that the dual monitor setup is also a bit out of the ordinary, but the Matrox dual head system has been around longer than just about any other and should be the most thoroughly tested. I know a number of the people here at NNA use dual display systems of one kind of another, so I doubt that is the cause. Matthew GiampapaTechnical Support Thanks for the pat on the back Quote Link to comment
Matthew Giampapa Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 Actually we don't keep any kind of records on users here in Tech Support. Our system is independent of the rest of the company. While we archive the call records. We don't cross reference problems very often. We hope to move to a system where we can leverage this, but not for any Orwellian purposes. Right now it's call by call, problem by problem. Matthew GiampapaTechnical Support quote: Originally posted by jnr: While you're at it you might as well file all this info into my record so that I don't have to go through all this again the next time I call. I'm assuming you can cross reference my memebership with everything else you know about me. Quote Link to comment
jnr Posted November 9, 2001 Author Share Posted November 9, 2001 Matt: Thanks for the exhaustive reply. Frankly, I'm a little dumbfounded with the number of variables availible to control. I guess this could be a good thing or a bad thing. I'll start with the roxio update since it is the most suspicious. FYI ATM lite is availible for free from adobe, but not for W2K. You have to buy it. I'm installing quick time 5.0 as I write.I'll get back to you regarding the other possibilities. I'll also talk to my programmer/it consultant who has a better understanding of w2k and my little network than I do. I know just enough to be dangerous. thanks again for your help. Quote Link to comment
jnr Posted November 13, 2001 Author Share Posted November 13, 2001 Matt:I have upgraded the matrox video drivers,ripped roxio cd out of the registry, and adjusted the monitor frequencies. I also upgraded to the current verison of quicktime from apple. I'm now at least getting error messages from Vecotorworks telling me I'm screwed instead of just vaporizing. I have not adjusted memory. However if I look under sys properties/advanced/performance options/virtual memory, it prompts for choices in paging file size ( I don't know what that is)I have a range of 768-1536 MB. Currently it is set for 768. Should I change this to 1536? This is getting frustrating, fix one thing, something else goes haywire. Unlike photoshop or quark, Vectorworks is not stable on this machine. When you throw in some of the other irritations about the program like wall stretching which is now a pain to use, or the lost autoclassing feature (gone from 9) and now almost useless (since 1/2 the objects now end up on the none class), or doors and windows which used to look professional in 8 now look like they are drawn by a juvenile with no architectural experience, and I'm just about ready to kill a few software engineers. Thanks for your help to date, if you have any new ideas regarding stability, let me know. Sorry about the rant, but I'm getting tired of redrawing files and wasting time. Quote Link to comment
jnr Posted November 13, 2001 Author Share Posted November 13, 2001 Chris:I guess it always feels better when someone else is in the same boat with you, even if it is capsizing. Are you on a Dell or some other manufacturer?The one thing I have noticed is that VWA (w/renderworks) has become more unstable since installing the latest version of quicktime (matt) and upgrading the video drivers. Rendering a model with open gl causes the program to crash. Matt: Do you want to weigh in here? Quote Link to comment
Matthew Giampapa Posted November 13, 2001 Share Posted November 13, 2001 In version 9, QuickTime is used to import/export image files not to render. Will other OpenGL based programs work? For lack of a better test, you could try some OpenGL games like Quake or somesuch. RenderWorks is tied to OpenGL, if you are having problems with the one, I am not suprised that the other is not working. Give me a few minutes, and I will find a test program you can use to see if any OpenGL based program will work. Matthew GiampapaTechnical Support quote: Originally posted by jnr: Chris:I guess it always feels better when someone else is in the same boat with you, even if it is capsizing. Are you on a Dell or some other manufacturer?The one thing I have noticed is that VWA (w/renderworks) has become more unstable since installing the latest version of quicktime (matt) and upgrading the video drivers. Rendering a model with open gl causes the program to crash.Matt: Do you want to weigh in here? Quote Link to comment
Matthew Giampapa Posted November 13, 2001 Share Posted November 13, 2001 Ok further research into the issue seems to point out that the Matrox G450 does not support OpenGL when in dual head mode. I'm trying to get in touch with Matrox directly to confim this. For now I would disable one monitor and see if the problem goes away. As for testing OpenGL, do any of the OpenGL based screen savers which come with Win2k work? Matthew GiampapaTechnical Support Quote Link to comment
jnr Posted November 13, 2001 Author Share Posted November 13, 2001 oops. Matt: thanks for looking in to this. so far, renderworks seems to work ok as long as you stay away from the open gl. what about the stability issues? any ideas? should I revert to the older matrox driver shipped by Dell? Do you have any comments about the reply above regarding paging size/ virtual memory? Quote Link to comment
Matthew Giampapa Posted November 13, 2001 Share Posted November 13, 2001 Jnr, Chris, I just had a long talk with our head of engennering about the problem. Matrox was able to confirm that when using the Dual Head mode of the G450, that OpenGL does not function on the secondary dsiplay. We have one of these cards here somewhere and are going to look into what exactly is happening with this type of setup. What I need know from both of you is more or less a list of when you have seen these crashes. Working with a specific tool, going into a rendering mode, changing sheets, etc... I would also be exremely helpful to know if you are seeing this in all your files, or just 1 or 2. If you create a blank file and put a few 3D objects in it can you reproduce the crash? Any steps you take which cause the crash to happen every time will also be a tremndious help. Matthew GiampapaTechnical Support Quote Link to comment
Matthew Giampapa Posted November 13, 2001 Share Posted November 13, 2001 Your virtual memory settings look fine, I would leave them as they are for now. It would take a lot of effort to use what you have set as the minimum. The only suggestion I have on this would be to set the max and minimum size to the same number. This shouldn?t affect anything stability wise, but it will prevent Windows from resizing your page file without asking. This is desirable because if windows resizes the file as you work it is prone to becoming fragmented. (FYI, since you asked before, the page file is a file created on your disk into which Virtual memory is mapped. The OS acts as if it has a much larger memory space than it does physical ram. Since most of the time it does not need to access everything in memory at the same time, infrequently used things are written to the disk in this file. When something tries to read that portion of memory, the OS automatically moved it back into ram and puts something else in the file) As for your video driver, I would stay with the one located on this page, http://www.matrox.com/mga/support/drivers/files/w2k_572.cfm Matthew GiampapaTechnical Support quote: Originally posted by jnr: oops.Do you have any comments about the reply above regarding paging size/ virtual memory? [ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Matthew Giampapa ] Quote Link to comment
jnr Posted November 13, 2001 Author Share Posted November 13, 2001 Matt: Thanks again for your help. I will set the min/max page sizes equal. I will let you know about re-creating the crashes after I have had time to redraw the file (it's a house). I need re-draw it because it has been copied a gazillion times and has walls and parts flying all over the place. I know this is sloppy computer work, but when you're designing a building you're testing many options and configurations. So far I cannot find a pattern in the crashes. Earlier they seem to be associated with stetching or moving walls, but now I can't tell. I tried working with the task manager open as you suggested, to watch resource allocation. The only thing I saw was a spiking of cpu usage (60-85%)whenever I moved a parametric object(dinner table for example) or panned or zoomed. I don't know if this is normal or not. I'll get back to you soon. -J Quote Link to comment
Matthew Giampapa Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 A quick spike in cpu usage is to be exspected. Whenever you move or other wise cause a plug-in to refresh it has to recalculate itself. Matthew GiampapaTechnical Support quote: Originally posted by jnr: Matt:Thanks again for your help. I will set the min/max page sizes equal. I will let you know about re-creating the crashes after I have had time to redraw the file (it's a house). I need re-draw it because it has been copied a gazillion times and has walls and parts flying all over the place. I know this is sloppy computer work, but when you're designing a building you're testing many options and configurations. So far I cannot find a pattern in the crashes. Earlier they seem to be associated with stetching or moving walls, but now I can't tell. I tried working with the task manager open as you suggested, to watch resource allocation. The only thing I saw was a spiking of cpu usage (60-85%)whenever I moved a parametric object(dinner table for example) or panned or zoomed. I don't know if this is normal or not. I'll get back to you soon. -J Quote Link to comment
nanoryerye Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 OK.. I know you guys are talking a different version than I am going to complain about.. I used to have 9 and upgraded to 10 because they sold me on the idea that 10 fixes alot of the problems of 9 ... so I'm using it and it crashes all the time.. why?? anyway onto my problem, My VW 10 crashes all the F***ing time. more than is acceptable. I can't even open a file once the file has crashed. I have to go to my backup file (thank god for backups!) and open that file. All I was trying to do was export to DWG. Is there any way to just purge a VW file so that you can debug any errors in the file? in AUTOCAD you can do this.. Please let me know if there is an equivalent function.. because I am getting nowhere fast reverting to my backup file.. this app makes me give up hope in technology making life better... it's either poorly written or just plain old gimic.. Quote Link to comment
Guest Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Nano, Okay before you panic, we may be able to help you out with this crashing ordeal. First, I will need some additional information. What Operating System are you using? If you are on Win NT, 2k or XP, do you have Adobe Distiller installed? Do you crash when you open a file? Are you crashing intermitently througout the session of VW? If so, what type of operations are you performing when you get the crash? Quote Link to comment
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