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Joe-SA

Hardscapes 'crashing' site model

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As a VW Architect user I'm new to Hardscapes and the Hardscape Alignment.   I've always found the Site Model object and it's modifiers one of the more reliable tools VW provides.

In learning how to use Hardscapes in lieu of pads and 3d polygons I'm finding with every Hardscape object I add to my model I get an exponential increase in the amount of time it takes to Update the Site Model.  When I get to 5 or 6 I'm into 15-20 minutes or more.  I've removed all of them to another layer and then started bringing them back in to test the theory and I'm getting those results in both VW2020 and VW2021.  Without Hardscapes my model regenerates in a short amount of time.  Add one in, a little longer and then a little longer.  After that I'm force quitting to regain control.   My iMac27 is the latest released just a couple months ago with 64GB RAM and 16GB VRAM.   It is not the machine.

 

Returning to old modeling methods for the foreseeable future.

 

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I see this happen sometimes.  It usually has to do with conflicts created by the hardscape or other site modifiers in my experience.  I model fairly complex sites, sometimes with 50 or more hardscapes and site modifiers.  Site model regeneration, without any of the aforementioned conflicts, happen from 1-5 minutes on an old Macbook Pro with 16GB RAM.  I would be interested in seeing one of these problem site models you have if you save it in 2020 format.

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Admittedly I do have a lot of conflicts.  In the past these haven't caused much of a slow down in regeneration.   Right now they are all due to Road Objects with Grade Limits on connecting to Hardscape Objects set to Align to the end of the road.   I'm finding that in order to invoke the alignment feature the edge of the hardscape needs to snap directly to the adjacent object with which you intend to align be it a Road Object or a 3D polygon.  Isn't this inherently creating a conflict by it's very nature?   I just removed the Grade Limits from my road objects to see if that was the culprit but there was no noticeable change.

 

In your experience with Hardscapes are you utilizing the Alignment Settings?  I'm wondering if that is, in fact, the issue since it was just introduced with VW2020.

This is the first time anyone in my office has tested this feature.   I can send you a link to the file.

 

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3 minutes ago, Joe-SA said:

 I'm finding that in order to invoke the alignment feature the edge of the hardscape needs to snap directly to the adjacent object with which you intend to align be it a Road Object or a 3D polygon.  Isn't this inherently creating a conflict by it's very nature?

 

In your experience with Hardscapes are you utilizing the Alignment Settings?

 

I have experienced issues with hardscapes in alignment mode when the adjacent object was a road or other site modifier.  My solution to this is put the road on a separate design layer and place and alignment feature on the edge of the road on the same design layer as the aligned hardscape.  This has been an effective workaround in regards to the road problem.  I have found that the tool does not work quite as well as the marketing videos indicate 😞

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So, to be clear, are you drawing a 3D Polygon to simulate the end of the Road Object and aligning to it instead of the road itself?   All while telling your Site Model to use Modifiers from both its own layer plus the new design layer with the Road Objects?

 

I'll test that this afternoon.

 

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@Joe-SA Yes, you just have to set your grade limits for the road and hardscape so they do not overlap.

1. place the road, put it on the site model design layer

2. design hardscape in 2D, put it on a hardscape design layer and class

3. draw a 3D poly for the hardscape alignment that snaps to the edge of the roadway, put it on the hardscape design layer and class

4. use Create from Objects to change that 2D hardscape design into a hardscape object

5. change the newly created hardscape to an aligned hardscape

6. draw grade limits for the hardscape that do not conflict with the road's grade limits, put on hardscape design layer.

7. configure your site model so it listens to the Site Model design layer and Hardscape design layer for modifiers

8. update the site model.

 

 

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1 hour ago, jeff prince said:

@Joe-SA

6. draw grade limits for the hardscape that do not conflict with the road's grade limits, put on hardscape design layer.

 

 

It's your #6 where you lose me.   My Road Object Grade Limit is set to 5ft.  This includes off the end of the road where I need to connect the Hardscape.  Can I pull that Grade Limit back to align with the end of the road so it doesn't overlap the Hardscape Object?  I am not aware I could do that.   Additionally, does the Hardscape Object have a similar built-in Grade Limits like the roads?  or are you talking about a separate Grade Limits object?  I've only ever used one of those per project to define the perimeter of the excavation.  I think I'm missing something.

Edited by Joe-SA

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@Joe-SA you can leave your road grade limit as is, I draw grade limits for other objects such as hardscapes to control how the grading is resolved for those features.

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So i removed all my roads from my site and left 6 Aligned Hardscape objects on site.  Only two were actually touching.  I also had 1 non-aligned Hardscape object and couple of pad modifiers.   My regen test caused me to force quit after about 5 minutes.  That is an unacceptable wait time.   I changed all of my Aligned Hardscapes to Slab Modifier Hardscapes and retested.   I was taken aback because the regen was nearly instantaneous.  It doesn't appear to be a conflict with the roads at all but the Site Model's in ability to deal with Aligned Hardscapes.   

 

I flipped locations as you suggested and put the Roads only on the site model with no Hardscapes.  Regen took less than a minute.  So I  kept all Aligned Hardscapes on a different layer and created 3D Polys for them to align too.  Then I told the Site-Model to look at both layers.  Again, I had to force quit.  Locating Aligned Hardscapes on a different layer had no impact on performance from where I started this morning.

 

I think Aligned Hardscapes still have value because you can created the warped surface that aligns between objects quite readily.  However, all terrain manipulation needs to happen by other means.  You cannot ask an Aligned Hardscape to modify your Site Model.  You must locate them on layers your Site Model doesn't look at.

 

Side note - why does changing the Hardscape status from Slab Modifier to Aligned change how it displays texture?  I can't get the Slab Modifier Hardscapes to show any texture at all while simply switching over to Aligned status caused the texture to appear.  For Aligned Hardscapes all the texture manipulation is happening as expected.  I'm currently using Unstyled Slab reference with a single Asphalt textured component.  I'll try linking to an actual Slab Style to see if that helps.  Here it seems I'm just swapping one bug for another.

 

As you said earlier....not quite living up to the promise of the marketing videos.

 

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@Joe-SA I suspect there is something going on with your site model data and/or roads.  I just got into that file you sent me.  Deleted everything not related to the site model and hardscape, and then purged.  When I try to turn off grade limits for your roads, it locks up Vectorworks.  I bet you have some conflicts in that site model data.

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