Dimensioning and Snapping with Viewports - Need Help

[khumphries]

I cannot snap and/or dimension to certain objects within a viewport on my sheet layer. The setup is as follows:

1) I've created a floor plan on a design layer.

2) I've created a viewport of the floor plan on another design layer, so that I can increase the scale, crop, and add more info.

3) I've created a viewport on a sheet layer that views the enlarged plan design layer.

4) In the Annotations mode for the viewport on the sheet layer (step 3) I can only snap to "real" lines overlaid on the enlarged plan created in step 2, I cannot snap to the plan info which is being viewported twice from the original plan in step 1.

I'm assuming that you lose the ability to snap to points in a viewport within a viewport. Is that true? If others have had this successfully work then can you please help me figure out what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks.

Edited December 31, 2008 by khumphries

[Benson Shaw]

The viewport within a viewport does not seem to be an issue for snaps, with one horrible exception. Most viewport snaps are same as non viewport snaps. Here is my experience In VW2008 with smart cursor, intersection and object snaps enabled (2009 may be different):

All "points" produce snaps in any view setting (Top Plan, Custom, etc) of the annotation mode of the step 3 viewport. "Points" would include vertices and centers of visible (projected) 2d objects. 2d edges also produce snaps, as do vertices of 3d objects including NURBS control points and the vertices in 2d components of hybrid objects such as Wall objects.

In views other than Top Plan, there is an offset of snaps of edges and vertices of projected 2d objects. The snaps are offset to the object's Top Plan geometry location. This produces ghost snaps in the viewport - very confusing (see attached).

In Top Plan view of the step 3 Viewport, a Snap should occur for all vertices as described above, and, additionally, all edges of projected 2d objects. Smart Cursor prompts for 2d objects include Object, Locus, Center and Point.

The edges/perimeters of 3d objects do not produce snaps in any view, except where vertices or control points are coincident.

This behavior is consistent in SLVPs of both Design Layer and DLVP.

-B

[khumphries]

It's still not working, but I've identified a few quirks that may help identify the problem.

The main quirk is that if I place the viewport roughly in the center of the sheet then I can snap to the points in the viewport that are viewported back from an external file. If I drag the viewport away from the center, then I can no longer snap to those points in the viewport.

It's definitely related to where the viewport is on the page, because if I move the viewport half way from center then I can snap within to points in the viewport that are roughly in the center of the sheet layout, and I can't snap to points within that same viewport that fall outside of the center of the page.

The fact that the area in which the viewport must be dragged for snaps to work is towards the center of the sheet layout may just be coincidence, but the important thing that I've identified is that moving the viewport to different locations on the sheet does affect the ability to snap to points within that viewport.

Backing up, the way that I originally figured this out started when I noticed that 3 out of 4 viewports on the sheet did not allow me to snap to certain points, but 1 of the viewports was working. When I copied the working viewport to a new location it no longer allowed me to snap to all points. When I swapped the locations of the working viewport with a non-working viewport the non-working viewport then allowed snaps and the previously working viewport no longer allowed snaps. Swapping them back flipped the functionality back, so location was confirmed to be a factor.

I need to get this worked out, because 80% of my sheet does not allow proper viewport snapping. Any ideas??

Thanks.

[khumphries]

More Info:

I've identified that the problem stems from cropping the design layer viewport. I'm not sure if this problem is intended to be the way Vectorworks is supposed to work, or if I've identified a bug - maybe a Nemetschek rep can comment.

Re-Cap with the new info:

1) I have a 1/4" floor plan in a separate file.

2) I create a design layer viewport in a new file and select the separate floor plan file as the source. I turn on the 1/4" layer which contains that floor plan as well as other 1/4" information that I don't need from the original file.

3) I crop the design layer viewport to show only the part of the referenced 1/4" layer that is relevant.

4) I create a new sheet layer viewport of the design layer that I've just created. I intend to annotate this viewport on the sheet layer.

5) I can snap to some parts of the referenced floor plan and not others. I approximate the perimeter defining the invisible border within which snaps work, and outside of which they don't. I draw this perimeter as polygon on the sheet layer, which equates to a 1:1 scale.

6) This polygon is the exact same shape as the crop polygon I used on the 1/4" design layer of the active file (in step 3). If I copy and paste it from the sheet layer to the 1/4" design layer, and scale it x48 then it fits perfectly to the crop polygon of the design layer viewport referencing the external file.

7) I've identified that somehow the crop that I use on the 1/4" design layer viewport is directly attributing to my inability to snap to points on the sheet layer viewport of the referenced 1/4" plan.

8) The viewport appears normal, and everything that is supposed to be visible is visible. The only thing that appears to be inadvertently cropped on the sheet layer viewport is the snapping ability.

9) Also, the invisible polygon defining the snap limits appears to be locked in place in the "real world" on the sheet layer, it does not move if the viewport is moved. I can move the viewport around on the sheet, leave the polygon in the same place on the sheet, and the snaps always work within the polygon and will not work outside of it.

Is this behavior expected? Am I doing something wrong? Or, is this automatic snap crop a behavior that is unintended, unknown and can possibly be fixed?

Thanks.

[Benson Shaw]

I tried creating a test file and a master with viewports of viewports per your list above. I moved the viewport with referenced info and snaps stay with the viewport. I cannot reproduce the snap failure described. Perhaps you could make some simple new files to test. Or maybe I missed part of your set up.

If you find same behavior in your test files, post them to this forum so others can review.

Also, please create forum signature showing your VW version and basic computer specs. Create it in the My Stuff link at top of this forum page.

Good luck.

-B

[khumphries]

Thanks for helping Benson.

I just created a simple setup of my issue and was able to reproduce the problem. I believe the key step for reproducing the problem is cropping the design layer viewport before viewporting it into the final sheet layer.

I know that I could avoid the problem by not cropping the design layer viewport, but Vectorworks does provide this as an option, and it can certainly be useful, so I expect that it is supposed to work.

I will try to attach the file in a follow-up post.

Thanks

[khumphries]

I've attempted to add the files to this post - I'm not sure if it worked.

The only part of the problem that is not repeating exactly like the 1st post is that the area in which snaps work is behaving a little differently on the sheet layer. I can no longer identify the exact area within which snaps work. It's very limited, and generally within the center of the page, but it will slightly move when I move the viewport and it is not the same proportions as the crop from the design layer viewport - it's narrower.

Edited January 7, 2009 by khumphries

[Benson Shaw]

My version 2009 should arrive in the next few days. Perhaps others will jump in here.

-B