Cory Pattak
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Posts posted by Cory Pattak
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Yes I can second this. Attached are some photos of @JBenghiat's Beam Viz Beams and you can see the difference between them with a Helidon and without.
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2 hours ago, klinzey said:
We recently released the first in a series of training courses for Vision
Kevin, are you referring to the paid classes? I was lucky enough to take this class at a discount, but I think it's a mistake to think that these are valid training options for the general public. When so many companies are offering short, digestible, free training videos on youtube...if VW believes that a $150 class is something a new or perspective user might take to learn the program, I think there is a disconnect going on.
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Hi Brandon,
There's a lot of info in there, most of which I understand, some of which I don't. All I'll say is that at the end of the day, I don't think new users are thinking that in depth about a program. Ultimately it comes down to 1) Is this software right for me, 2) Is it worth the cost, 3) Is the learning curve manageable.
Showing that these measurements are in inches is obviously a minor thing. But there are many of these little things like this scattered throughout the program, some of which we've discussed in the past couple days...areas of the program that are buggy, or are unintuitive, or don't match VW behavior. Obviously VW (and Vision) is a business and the ultimately goal is to sell licenses. When a potential user downloads the demo, they are gonna try it out, and either decide Vision is for them, or it isn't. I can say at the moment that within the theatrical lighting design community (at least in NY) the decision generally seems to be that "Vision is not for me." Spotlight users are using Capture, or Light Converse, or another alternative to Vision or not even bothering with Previz. With all due respect to the hard work the entire Vision team has put in to improve the program, a new user doesn't know or necessarily care about all the back end reasons a program functions the way it does. (I know you're laying it out for me because we get more technical here on the Beta board, delving into the "Why") For most users, it's a gut feeling..."do I like using this software." So a lot of the reports I file, are about trying to address all those little hiccups that collectively add up to a piece of software that many people are just deciding doesn't work for them. Valid reasons or not, the end user just wants the calm duck above the water, they are not interested in what the legs are doing underneath.
22 hours ago, bbudzon said:The next logical step from there is making the UI localizable so the UI text is fully decoupled from the backend data.
If I'm understanding what this means, I think this is a HUGE step in trying to get Vision into the hands of more people. The info in the Properties dialogue box still looks somewhat like back end code. The missing units, the presence of "True" or "False." (Obv there's a million checkboxes in VW and none of them say True/False, they are just a checkbox.) What the engineers code and the what the users see should be very different, and the user's experience should drive the UI, not having the code dictate the UI. I say this as a completely non-technical, non-code writing person. I think it's going to continue to be difficult to acquire new users until Vision feels a little less "code-y" and a little more user friendly. (Even though it has taken a big step foward in the past 2 years) This is the main feedback I'm hearing from other designers. And with ETC's 'Augmented' software on the horizon, which is VERY user friendly (and free), designers are going to be even more reluctant to spend time in a program they feel is unintuitive or comes with a set of asterisks of all the tasks that it still doesn't do well yet, but is on the list for down the road.
Just my two cents based on talking to a lot of other LDs.
thanks
Cory
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gotcha. Just curious, how would a user know that? Should the numbers in those fields have a " after it to indicate inches? I can imagine every new user wondering the same thing I did.
Cory
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So just to clarify...when I look at the X, Y, Z positions in the Properties Window..and I see a number like 150 or 360. Is that in inches or in mm?
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Forgive me if this is a naive question. Will there be training videos not behind a pay wall? If the goal is to get new users to check out Vision or quell potential fears about a steep learning curve, it seems like those videos want to be readily available to everyone. I understand advanced topics maybe being special training for VSS members only, but by VW's own admission, very few spotlight users use Vision and there is strong interest is seeing that number rise. Creating a great video about how to use Vision and then charging $150 to watch it, seems like a counterintuitive approach. But perhaps there are other videos planned. I hope at the very least, this video will be available for free to beta testers. If I can't confidently use a program, I'm not really going to recommend it anyone else.
thanks,
Cory
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I agree. I actually had no idea this was happening, didn't get any kind of email or anything. Since it seems to just have been announced Tuesday, I assume most people will want/need to watch on demand. Hopefully that can be possible. But 2.5 hours on Vision sounds like a great chunk of time to go through things. Excited to watch.
Cory
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This is the workflow as I understand it. It does seem like certain properties are lost upon that remerge in..like ambient light maybe...but I haven't had enough time to test it out so I can't say for sure. I think the bigger issue, and I know you know this, is that this workflow highly diminishes the attractiveness of the "Send to Vision" command. When this command was introduce, it was touted as a big deal because it simplified the process of getting from VW to Vision. But if that command is really only available the first time, and all other times behaves more like the the way VW info used to get into Vision, then it's not as much as a step forward as one would hope.
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On 6/20/2018 at 10:29 AM, Edward Joseph said:
Something that is confusing me though, is the workflow here. Maybe if that was clarified I can make a better suggestion in the bug entry. Is this a reoccurring problem in your workflow? Do you often need to make changes and re-export pieces of your rig after changing all of the root properties and saving camera views?
a resounding yes. One of the big touting points of Vision is that most of the work can and should be done VW, the program we are all familiar with. At least for me, a theatre designer, using Vision is not the final step to make a client rendering. It's a process tool. That might mean making adjustments in VW based on what I see and learn in Vision. So yes please, I would love a way to save all those global settings with a custom option. And also an option to restore to defaults.
Cory
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I think if you click on "File Export Options" in the publish window and uncheck "Create Folder for each file type", I think that might disable the publish log. It works for me.
Cory
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This has been happening to me too. I notice when it happens it's not just a display issue. If I open my classes...literally all the fills have been set to black. I usually have to close and re-open the file a couple times and eventually it rights itself. Though not always...which is worrisome. For the record, this is happening in my blank template file that has no DWG imports or any outside data from any other user. Has this happened to you at all since you originally posted?
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seconding the wish to show a duel dimension in the tape measure bar. I'm working in South America right now and it would be very useful. I have to keep making dummy dimensions to see both the imperial and metric measurements of things.
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thanks everyone. makes sense...well in the logic of Vision it makes sense. Still incredibly cumbersome when looked at in context of general ease of use. And just to confirm, I can really only use the "Send to Vision" command the first time I make the Vision file correct? After that point, I need to be exporting from VW and merging into Vision?
C
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Let's say I have a VW file with 10 lights on a pipe over a stage. I "Send to Vision" and now I have a Vision file. I make some changes to the settings in that Vision file, adjust ambience, focus the lights, etc. so now I don't want to lose that file or I'd have to adjust all those settings all over again. But then I decide I want to add 5 more lights on that pipe and change some of the existing fixtures to a different type. How exactly do I do that? I believe that is where I'm supposed to use the Merge command? So I go back to my VW file, add the additional lights, make the fixture type adjustment, export to .esc and then merge into Vision. The new fixtures come in, but so does everything else.
Now I have two versions of the stage, two versions of the pipe, and duplicates of the lights that were already there. Back in VW, am I supposed to hide or delete anything that isn't new before I export to avoid duplicates? VW won't let me just export the lights, I get an error window saying I need at least one piece of 3D geometry that isn't the lights, so now I need to export my new lights and some random piece of 3D geometry that I will just delete in Vision? What about changing the fixture type of the existing lights? If I've already added color, focused them, etc. in Vision, is there no way to update the fixture type? Do I need to delete the old lights and re-merge in the new kind of fixture type and then re-apply the settings and re-focus them?
If anyone can clear this all up it would be much appreciated. thanks!
Cory
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On 3/28/2017 at 0:50 PM, line-weight said:
I hadn't even noticed this "ignore" option in the settings until I was fiddling around trying to understand your problem (although I think it might be better to call it "don't save" instead of "ignore" as that's what the VW dialogue box calls it).
So thanks for that, could be useful to use in the future!
However, maybe not so useful after all as I can now see what the problem is.
I agree it should be as you describe. I can't see a good workaround.
"Saved views" need improvements generally. The more I work in 3D the more I rely on them.
well at least I don't feel so crazy now that you also acknowledge the issue. Still no good solution though. Hopefully someday.
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14 hours ago, mike m oz said:
It sounds like you only want these amended views on a temporary basis. If so create a new Saved View for that current state. Then delete it once it is no longer required.
Hey Mike...naw these are not just temporary. This are permanent Saved Views that are used in every one of my drawings. That's why they are pre-built with certain class and layer visibility settings.
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new to the board...forgive me if I'm posting in the wrong thread. This Saved View Issues has plagued me for years. I don't think there is a solution but it hasn't stopped me from asking anyone who will listen.
I have lots of Saved Views pre-made in my temp file. (1. Plan, 2. Section 3. FOH 4. Sidelight, etc.) In those views...I have the screen location and zoom fairly close to probably how I need it and have pre-set class and layers visabilities based on the view. With each new file, as the drawing comes together...I update elements of those saves views as the drawing requires. The problem is that I have many saved views where some of the layers/classes are set to "Ignore" (the red circle with a slash) Ignore" is not an actual state, a class can't sit in an "Ignore" state, it simply means "leave this alone when recalling the view."
Now imagine you turn some of those ignored layers/classes on or off, as if you were in the middle of your workflow, and adjust the zoom/pan, etc. and attempt to "Redefine" the Saved View.
You now have a problem. If you uncheck Layer Visibility and/or Class Visibility those parameters will now be completely removed from the Saved View (Active class, etc. becomes greyed out in the visibility settings.) If you leave them checked, the current Class/Layer setting (either on/off/grey) will OVERWRITE any class/layers you had set to be ignored. There is in fact no way to update the Saved View without breaking classes/layers that were set to ignore.
In my opinion, unchecking a parameter in the "Redefine" window should not REMOVE those settings from the Saved View but simply leave them untouched in this current action. My terrible workaround is that I keep a separate list of how I like the visibility settings for layers and classes in various saved views. (because it's too many to remember.) Any time I Redefine a View (mainly to update the zoom/pan) I then I have to go into visibility settings and re-set the settings to how I want them based on my list. It is very annoying and tedious.Does anyone follow what I'm describing and does anyone have a workaround? help!
thanks.
Cory
Lightwright with 2021
in Troubleshooting
Posted
FYI...this still appears to be very broken in SP2 (574483). Working on preparing a bug report to file with details.
Cory