PC Hardware Questions

[Andres]

I am putting a PC together for one of our clients who runs VectorWorks and I have been unable to get some information on recommended hardware. Talking to Tech Support was like talking to a wall, so I think the Forum is the place to start.

Here is what I am thinking:

- P4 Dual Core 64 Bit

- Windows XP 64 (Vector works is NOT a 64 Bit APP, Will it run?)

- 2 Raptor SATA Drives in Hardware RAID 0

- 1 Raptor SATA Drive for Scratch files (If VW uses scratch files?)

- 2 Gb DDR2 low latency Memory (3 cl)

- Matrox Parhelia APVe

Here are my questions:

- Is Dual Core better than Dual Xeon in terms of performance?

- Will I get any advantage out of 64 Bit?

- How dependant is VW on Disk speed?

- How dependant is VW on RAM speed?

- Does VW have any type of scratch files?

- What type of graphics acceleration gets the best performance for VW?

- Any general recommendations?

Thanks!!

[ 02-17-2006, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: Andres ]

[jnr]

Katie wrote a tech article about this a while back. I can't remember where it's posted. Send her an e-mail. It may help. These are very good questions and ones that I would hope the company would give it up and respond to. Its not a level playing field since they have no problem touting or responding to changes in Apple hardware. Other CAD software vendors seem to have no problem certifying hardware configurations from Dell and others. Its clear that version 12 is a hog. What opened quickly in 11 on a 2gig mhz machine is like watching paint dry in 12. Too many bells and whistles make for sloppy code. The best I'll be able to do is purchase the fastest reasonable priced machine with a boatload of memory and the biggest graphics card I can afford from XI computer since NNA won't tell us what works best.

[ErichR]

It's simple: Just buy the most expensive Mac you can get.

Truthfully, I use WXP with v12 at work. Recently got what the IT guy thought was best, with a dual core processor. I don't notice any speed inprovement over the dual processor machine that I had, but I haven't run any tests.

[ 02-17-2006, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: ErichR ]

[alanmac]

Hi

I'd say this was specced out by somebody using software more akin to Photoshop or 3D Max etc than VW, would I be right?

The questions you ask in the second half of your post can only really be answered by NNA regarding advantages and dependancy, as this needs knowledge of how the program and its code interacts with hardware.

I will say the raptor drives seem somewhat excessive, and expensive in a VW set up but this has to be taken in the context of what other software the person has advised you they wish to run on the machine.

Sorry, jnr, to state that NNA support on this issue of Apple and Windows not being a levelling playing field is simply not true.

They don't give any other recommendation than the "minimum "requirements for a machine to run VW.

Sadly they do not give the best either, but with the huge variety, certainly in the Windows machines, to go through researching ever combination would be far too costly.

If they did take a small number or even one manufacturer such as Dell to recommend they'd no doubt be accused of favouritism and that xyz is faster and cheaper etc.

They do however give information that relates to software/machines regarding such issues as the new Intel processor Apple machines, which is understandably as this involves a changing of program code to suit the new equipment.

I'm sure that issues/information regarding the up and coming Windows Vista OS will also be addressed by NNA regarding VW compatability etc.

As regards Graphics cards. As I'm lead to understand the only area these make a difference to any program, apart from games, is in screen redraws and connected OpenGL performance.

All other program computaions are handled by the main CPU not the GPU on the graphics card.

So buying a 256mb memory card over a 128mb will see little difference in VW.

The dual processor capacity only shows its use in Rendering situations - I don't use Renderworks, but understand it is "dual processor" aware and you should see two lines of render on a dual processing machine, as both processors undertake the rendering task.

I do in Cinema 4D, which will use as many processors as you have, on both windows 2000 and XP

So a fast processors be it Intel or AMD with plenty of memory is the first priority and the graphics card whilst important does not have to be wildly expensive. I found these to be very expensive if going for such items as the FX Quadro range from nVidia.

It appears that "at present" the only advantage Windows 64 has over the 32bit system in general terms, is that it can use and address much more memory but this is only of use if, firstly the machines hardware can take more than 2 Gb of memory and secondly the programs can also within their capabilities, can also access and use this greater amount of memory. A question for NNA I'd assume.

Funny although all those things are important to me, I'd also put noise levels and energy use as a high priority, and certainly something that manufacturers are becoming more aware of.

It's no good having the fastest machine you can buy if it sounds like a jet engine next to you all the time your working with it.

Getting it to run cool and quiet is just as important. Good case design, quiet PSU unit,are becoming more relevant as the speed increases in processors become less and less noticable.

Alan

[Andres]

Thanks for the input!!

Question for jnr: Where can I find Katie's email?

MAC is definitely an option that we are looking into. The problem is related to the other software that the user has. Not all might be compatible and in some cases we would need to purchase new software. This could be pretty expensive.

You are right Alanmac, I am looking at it from a Photoshop and video editing perspective. That is why I wanted a little bit of info from tech support. I am not looking at Brands or specific products, but rather on how the program works, so I can better choose the hardware. I think that is where Tech Support just doesn?t cut it. I got the feeling that the person I talked to simply didn?t know the program well enough to answer these questions.

The user will be using Photo Shop and Illustrator as well as an array of smaller programs. In this case, the RAID 0 and third drive makes an enormous difference!! I think I will stick to something similar to what I originally envisioned. I use that combination myself running on the Intel D9655 XBK main board and I couldn?t be happier. It is the fastest PC I have ever used.

Noise level and power have been taken care of with the Antec P180 and the phantom power supplies. Great choice!! Highly recommend it for any high end PC that you want cooled and quiet.

Thanks!

[Andrew Bell@NV]

General recommendations:

AFAIK, NNA has never tried running VectorWorks on 64-bit Windows. Apparently it should run; however, a lot of printer drivers don't, so I personally wouldn't recommend it.

For most VectorWorks performance questions, WinBench or other similar generic CPU benchmarks will probably give you a reasonable approximation of how well a given machine will run VectorWorks. Only RenderWorks is multi-threaded, however, so run tests using a single processor/core. Solid operations (Add/Subtract/Intersect/Section Solid, etc.) use a lot of floating point, so check tests related to floating point performance if that's important to your client.

Hard drive performance is rarely an issue unless you're using virtual memory, but given what you've suggested for hardware already presumably you'll make sure you have plenty of RAM.

VectorWorks uses OpenGL acceleration; it does not use Direct3D. Look for graphics cards with good OpenGL performance numbers.

[ 02-21-2006, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Bell@NNA ]