Networking Issues

[Bart Rammeloo]

Hello,

A friend of mine has several licences of VW on win2000. He uses a server to store his files. VectorWorks is installed on several workstations. If he tries to open a mcd-file from the server, he is confronted with an incredible lag. Opening a 5MB file takes a couple of minutes, while opening a 30MB file in photoshop takes only half a minute. Clearly a VectorWorks - Windows problem. I never encountered this problem before, but perhaps somebody on this list knows what I am talking about.

Ciao,BaRa

[ErichR]

We're on a Windows network, where files are stored. VW files are fat, compared to AutoCad, but then the AutoCad files are significantly less sophisticated.

I always copy the VW file to my local computer and work from there, copying daily back to the server. Opening, working on and saving files locally is the only effective method.

[Guest]

You must keep in mind VW stores 3d information, 2d information, coordinate information, textures if there are any, if the file is rendered then it must pull all the rendered information and generate that when launched. A simple photoshop file might be larger in size since image files are generally larger, however there is not as much technical information stored with a photoshop file.

One way to reduct the ammount of time it takes to open a VW file is to save the file in a top plan view. This will not write all the 3d information to the file but it will store it so you don't lose it. Also, if you have rendered any portion of the drawing, don't save it as rendered. Revert it back to wireframe. If you have erroneous classes and layers, symbols, hatches, textures, etc. then you should purge that information if you are not going to use it. This is all extra information that has to be recognized and opened in the resources file and other parts of the file that can lead to extra, unnecessary time.

[TiTaNiuM sAMuRai]

"This will not write all the 3d information to the file but it will store it so you don't lose it."

... and VW would 'store it' how, if not writing to the file? I'm really dying to understand the nature of VW's saved-state character...

[Andrew Bell@NV]

quote:

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Originally posted by TiTaNiuM sAMuRai:

and VW would 'store it' how, if not writing to the file?

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I think Katie is misinformed on this particular detail. To the best of my knowledge (as someone with an intimate knowledge of much of the code), no rendering results are ever saved with the file (unless as a rendered bitmap), nor is anything not saved just because it's in top/plan.

However, the general remarks regarding VW having to do a lot more than Photoshop with input data, and thus being slower, is correct. Beyond the file headers, Photoshop needs simply to read in a large list of color values of a known size. VectorWorks has to rebuild all the various class, layer, and object connections, and it tries to make sure none are corrupted and to repair them if they are. If you want a closer test of raw file read time, make a VectorWorks file that contains nothing but a large bitmap texture. Then compare the speed it takes to load that file with the time it takes Photoshop to load the original bitmap. (Your original bitmap should be in an uncompressed format for an accurate test.) I suspect you'll find the read times much closer.

[Guest]

The information I stated is information I gained from the engineers here directly. I don't know how it's not saved but stored, I jsut know that to be the case from what I've been told by the engineers.

If you have a complex file with many 3d objects -- try it. Save it as top plan and save it as a 3d view. Note the difference in the file size. You will not notice much difference on a smaller file.

[TiTaNiuM sAMuRai]

I fully understand the speed issue; regeneration time will vary, depending on the state in which the file is saved. Actually, Photoshop regen could vary depending on filters and such.

However, I'd like to know why 3D/2D states affect the file _size_.

Andrew?

[TiTaNiuM sAMuRai]

Saved caches. I see now where the size thing / rumour has its roots. Interesting approach...

[AndyM]

I have been curious about this as well. I thought that you got smaller files/faster loads when saved in plan.

I did a test I have a big file with lots of hybrid objects and solid operations. Saved in plan 18.2MB, saved in perspective 18.2MB. However, the plan version does load faster. I guess because drawing a hybrid symbol in plan view is much easier than drawing the 3d version of the same symbol. So there is some merit in always saving in plan view. Correct?

[ 06-24-2002: Message edited by: AndyM7777 ]

[Andrew Bell@NV]

quote:

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Originally posted by TiTaNiuM sAMuRai:

However, I'd like to know why 3D/2D states affect the file _size_.

Andrew?

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Given that I claimed it doesn't, I'd be hard-pressed to give you an answer to that.

There are situations where VectorWorks creates what we call a cached representation of an object. That's data that can be generated from the object's definition, but we store a copy because it's faster to access that copy than to regenerate it each time we need it. This cache is often saved with the file. These caches may get destroyed for various reasons; changing the 3-D resolution, for example, will destroy some of the caches. The cache is only regenerated as needed. So if you did something that destroyed the caches, but all the relevant objects aren't visible afterwards, it's possible that if you save the file at that point it will be smaller. But changing to plan doesn't do anything like this that I know of, other than wiping out the current rendering settings which is a pretty small record.