it is funny to follow this thread...i started with minicad back in the 80s and it was a very advanced drawing board, which i loved because it enabled me to print proper plans on multible pages when i couldn't afford a plotter...with a bonus 3D ability for presentation. I had many dicussions with other minicad users and they used it a total different way as me and still see it with Vectorworks. This was the other beloved beauty..i could find my own way, as anybody else does. A lot of flexibility. But when things changed most for the better, some not. Allways iritating. My partner doesn't get the 3D thinking and still uses the drawingboard in only floorplans and sections or elevations and his projects work as well. I work in 3D so we just use the same tool in different ways. For me personal i had no problem with screen plane and layer plane except it sometimes get rendered the wrong way if you didn't setup your viewport proper (display screen objects etc) and yes i use screen objects for croping (creating) viewports a lot and i would miss that! but it would be still workable... it is just a tool for many different purposes. And back to this thread i have the imagination that zoomer and P Retondo have just different perspectives.. i like that and try to learn;)