michaelk

Bill I've found I can force the problem to occur w/ the following steps: 1. Get the symbols to be visible. 2. Turn the classes the symbols live in off. 3. Close the file. 4. Reopen the file. 5. Turn the classes back to visible. Symbols are now invisible. michaelk

Thanks for sharing these, Orso. Do you really have a script that generated Moby? michaelk

I have a drawing open that is currently having the symbol visibility problem. Three more clues discovered following Kevin's suggestion 7. I duplicated one of the 3D symbols and inserted the duplicate. The OIP thinks it is a 2D symbol. 8. When I went into the 3D edit portion of the symbol to convert to Generic Solids, it would not convert either of the two types of objects. (1 @ EAP and many nurbs curves) 9. After opening the 3D edit space, doing nothing effective, and exiting, the symbol is visible and the OIP correctly recognizes is as a 3D symbol. Could it be, as Brugers and Kevin suggest, that "the fault, dear Brutus, lies not in our symbols, but in our geometries, that they are underlings?"

Hard to say - Just the act of editing a symbol fixes the problem. But I'll try changing one or two of them to generic solids and see if the problem persists w/ those. Thanks for the suggestion michaelk

You are correct about the non necessity of deselecting everything and right clicking on nothing. I've tried it a couple times. It sometimes doesn't go amiss the first time or two, but once it does, then it keeps doing it. Try going back and forth between path and profile, that seems to annoy it. In my extremely limited testing polylines paths behave better than polygon paths. But that could just be coincidence. michaelk

Bill Just tried your suggestion of turning on all classes. Didn't work for me. I turned on all classes in a SLVP and all classes in the design layer. No symbols materialized out of the ether. Check for a message. michaelk

Not necessary. Just entering the 2D edit space and exiting back out makes the 3D only symbol appear. But adding a 2D part also does what one would expect.

Great suggestion, thanks. It's happening again right now. Quartz and anti-alias settings have no effect. I have my doubts about a video buffer. Last time it happened I rebooted the computer and it was still misbehaving. Right now I have almost nothing else running. Activity monitor shows 90% idle. Here's a couple more clues: 1. Symbols do not appear in wireframe, dashed hidden line, or hidden line render mode. 2. Symbols DO appear in Open GL, Final Quality Renderworks, Artistic Renderworks, and Fast Radiosity. (Those are the only render modes I tried.) 3. In the 3 modes where the symbols do not appear, the curser will snap to them and preselection highlighting will appear as though it were visible. 4. They can be selected, but remain invisible when selected. Only the selection highlight is visible. 5. In views other than Top or Top/Plan the invisible symbols behave like (invisible) 2D screen plane objects. Even though my symbols are 3D only symbols. I can snap to them an select them, but they are stuck in Top/Plan view (and, of course, invisible). 6. Entering and exiting the edit space for any of the symbols will cause that one symbol to immediately behave as expected in wireframe, dashed hidden line, and hidden line. Bill, are you also seeing 1 - 6? michaelk

Glad you saw it too. After mike m oz pointed out that it worked when editing symbols, I've been right clicking on empty space all the time. But, like you, I worry that I may have been happier before I found enlightenment. michaelk

My file was started w/ VW 2010. Don't think it's related to file upgrading. michaelk

I just tried it again on a blank document. 2009 works as expected. 2010 still has the glitch. Do you really still have 2010 SP1? Mine says 2010 SP2 R2. michaelk

I just downloaded the file that I posted. When I uploaded it, none of the symbols were visible. When I opened the download, all the symbols were visible. [sigh.] michaelk

It happened again and I was able to capture it. I will include it as an attachment. I had to strip everything away to make it fit as an attachment here, so there is little context - but here it is. This is what I'm seeing: 1. In wireframe render I don't see the symbols 2. In Open GL they appear. 3. Meanwhile, back in wireframe, click on one of the symbols in the Resource Browser>Edit>Edit 3D>Exit symbol will make that symbol appear. (The affected symbols are all in the symbol folder: "Stupid Tension Grid" Bill, is this the same thing you're experiencing? michaelk

Spotlight comes with a lot of symbols. Hundreds, probably. In your resource browser click the little triangle to the right of Files at the top of the browser window. Select Browse a Document. Navigate to Applications/Vectorworks 2009/Libraries/Objects-Entertainment/Lighting-Strand Imp.vwx Click open The resource browser will have the 2 fresnel symbols you saw and below that will be a bunch of folders. One of those folders is labeled Iris. It will have the symbols for the Iris cyc fixtures (and all their component parts, if you want to create multi circuit instruments). hth michaelk

I'm not trusting a few of my five senses today. I think I'm seeing an Extrude Along Path edit bug. Can someone check me on this before I submit it? It behaves as expected in 2009. In 2010, when in the edit space for an EAP, it won't switch between the Path and Profile spaces. Example attached. Thanks michaelk

I believe it does persist through a reboot. But I can't be sure. I know that just renaming the file, closing it and reopening it fixes the problem. As does entering the 3D edit space and exiting right away again. - This will fix the issue for one symbol at a time. In the drawing I'm currently working on there are 9 3D symbols that have had this issue twice in the last couple weeks. When the problem presents itself, all nine symbols are invisible and don't respond to class visibility changes. The extrude along path object is created from a path object and profile object that are both in the same class as the EAP. A TOPIC FOR ANOTHER THREAD: I have noticed a problem with editing the EAP, but I think this is a separate issue. Double click the EAP > Profile, then deselect everything, right click on empty space, choose Edit Path. VW jumps out of the EAP and back into the drawing. Double click on the EAP again, and you are brought straight to the Path object part, without the dialog box asking what part you'd like to edit. (same issue happens when trying to go the other way..) I've tried this on the problem drawing and on a blank drawing same result. michaelk

My symbols are Extrude Along Path objects in one class and nurbs curves in another class. No 2D. Symbols are inserted in the None class. Both classes have Use at Creation checked to use class pen and fill colors. michaelk

This might be a clue (to somebody smarter than me): I did a "Save Copy as..." so I could strip it down enough to post the file. Then closed the original file that still had the visibility problem and opened the new, about-to-be-stripped-down file. But the visibility was fine in the new file. I reopened the original file, and that visibility was restored as well. I didn't relaunch VW, just closed and opened the file. Next time it happens I'll do a Save As or just move the whole file to a website so I can submit it as a bug...

Were they 3D only symbols (ie not hybrid 2D/3D)?

Bill I just had it happen again. 3D only symbols, made of an extrude along path in one class and a bunch of nurbs curves in another class. Symbols themselves are in the none class. Making the both classes visible does not make the symbols visible in the design layers or SLVPs. However, as soon as I enter and exit the 3D part of the edit screen for one of the symbols, that symbol pops back into view on both design layers and SLVPs. There are 9 of these similar, affected symbols. I have to enter and exit the 3D edit part of each to make the visible again. I'd post the file, but it's too big. michaelk

Very strange. I wonder if Tools>Utilities>Update Plug-in Objects does anything for Spotlight objects? michaelk

You don't have any 2D geometry in the symbol. As soon as you add a label legend, that text behaves like a 2D part of the symbol, so in Top/Plan view all you see is the legend. Edit the symbol. Add some 2D geometry. All will be good hth michaelk

You can't edit the layout or fields inside the label legend manager or you can't grab the handle of a field and move it in the drawing? michaelk

Whoops.. I just noticed your post saying that you tried it and it worked - at least for design layers. ummm... never mind...

Bill I've had occasional trouble w/ symbols disappearing. I haven't been able to recreate it. Usually it happens on 3D only symbols that have nurbs curves. The fix that has worked for me is to go into the 3D edit space of the symbol, from the resource browser. I don't have to actually edit anything, just go into it and back out. Then the 3D symbols become visible again, and it doesn't happen again during the life of that drawing. hth michaelk